Toyota teases all-new RAV4 ahead of L.A. Auto Show debut

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by ggood, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,073
    3,695
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    I would not call that a personal insult, it was an insult to your reasoning.
    Toyota does indeed look at how the escape hybrid sold, and why it did. They care a lot about Ford's opinion and technology on BEVs and hybrid SUVs and . That is why they are working with ford on a Truck hybrid system. They also watched ford on the focus EV, and decided to outsource the RAV 4 EV, knowing they were behind. FOrd and Mistubishi experience had them cancel the iq ev.

    FInally the RAV4 looked closely on the crv and escape. Toyota tried to fix the deficiencies. They also watched ford and honda cancel the v6.

    I"m not sure where the 70K comes from or why it would matter. Your premis is false. Why 2014? Are the Japanese incentives back then? Why not use 2014 on both cars. Is it you want to be clear you are being unfair.

    IMHO you made a bad prediction. You follow up with insults to ford and toyota, to jusify your previous bad prediction.


    IMHO rav4 hybrid looks to need improvement or cost reduction before toyota implements it.




    Toyota learns lessons from ford, because toyota believes they have insight and competitive products. But obviously you disagree with Toyota. I did not say they copy them exactly. Why do you think they do it?

    We do know from Toyota statements that they value Ford's market reserach on hybrids, as we know from ford's that they look at toyota.


    Toyota counts on new models to grow sales in Europe


    I'm not sure where your 4% came from, but it seems bad like most of your numbers. Why does it matter? You claimed that toyota needed a rav 4 hybrid because toyota would sell a large number in europe. That seems to be against likely facts
     
  2. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    1,877
    20
    27
    Location:
    PNW
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    They should be looking at the Subaru market. You would think an AWD getting 40 mpg with a plug in version boosting it to 75 mpg in day to day or even on the ski/bike/hike/kayak runs would be a big seller.

    Ford was stupid in not building an Escape hybrid AWD that boosted the AWD from 30 mpg to 40 mpg. I would have gotten one instead of the Prius.
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,073
    3,695
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    You have to understand that the escape only sold 10K units in 2011 before the prius v and c-max were a factor. There is only so much you can do with a hybrid for highway milage, and the escape couldn't really expect to get big highway numbers, maybe 35 mpg at the most. In a 4wd vehicle you would not want the low stick lrr tires of the prius or c-max, so city mileage is going to get hurt too. I would be suprised if they could have done much better than mid 30s combined, the hihy is 28 combined.

    If Ford had deep pockets I'm sure they would have continued on, but they are likely waiting for improvements.

    1) Cost reductions realized from the fusion and c-max hybrids on hybrid parts
    1. batteries
    2. motors
    3. electric ac
    4. LRR tires for SUV
    2) Improved e4wd system. This may come out of their collaboration with Toyota, or may be completely ford developed. I would expect it to make it to the c-max before or at the same time
    3) Perhaps hybrid building on the 2L turbo engine to make it top of the line.

    I would say it was likely as a 2014 or 2015 model, but ford recently has had big problems with the ecoboost 1.6L. They need to spend money to fix this quickly, as it impacts reliability of the escape. That may slow resources devoted to the escape.
     
    lensovet likes this.
  4. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    1,877
    20
    27
    Location:
    PNW
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    You have to understand that Escape Hybrid sales were about 10% of Escape sales.

    You have to understand that Prius sales are about 10% that of Corolla sales.

    You have to understand that 2012 Ford Escape Hybrid AWD got 30 mpg. Doing a complete product redesign as Ford did with the Escape, Ford should have included an Escape Hybrid AWD getting 40 mpg. That should have been the design goal and it was and is an achievable goal.

    You have to understand that the main focus (excuse the pun) of the 2013 Escape remake was increased mileage.

    You have to understand that Subaru and Toyota will be introducing AWD high mileage hybrids in 2013-2014
     
  5. Quentin

    Quentin Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    335
    88
    0
    Location:
    West Virginia
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    With the Cmax having difficulty getting far into the 40s, I don't expect that the heavy Escape would have made it there. Really, 30 mpg is really the break over point to diminishing returns, IMO, anyway.
     
    lensovet likes this.
  6. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    1,877
    20
    27
    Location:
    PNW
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Escape Hybrid AWD was already at 30 mpg. Doing the redesign aiming at 40 mpg seems reasonable. It would probably look like the upcoming Subaru AWD hybrid.
     
  7. ggood

    ggood Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    2,436
    517
    0
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
  8. Quentin

    Quentin Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    335
    88
    0
    Location:
    West Virginia
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Lots of nice kit in the new Rav: power, memory seats, power liftgate, stitched dash/interior accents.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    17,228
    8,301
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    It would be surprising if Toyota hadn't designed the new Rav4 with a hybrid system in mind. Otherwise, the engineer confirms that they are taking a wait and see approach on actually introduce one.
     
  10. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    3,938
    1,351
    28
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    New Toyota RAV4 Hybrid Is Likely On The Way, And Soon Too
     
  11. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,073
    3,695
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Its sad what passes for journalism today -

    Let's translate a little better shall we. There are no cute ute hybrids today because ford just killed the escape hybrid because of slow sales in the redesign. Ford may change that soon, we don't know. I'm sure they designed the escape to add hybrid later on. Ford does have a compact crossover hybrid and phev called the c-max.

    The author seems not to have dealt with many japanese executives, other wise he would have trnaslated it to - NO, we have no plans now, but we can change our minds. We definitely thought about it. I'm sure Toyota like ford designed the Rav4 to add hybrid later on.


    Well, you didn't need to mistranslate for that nugget, which is why this no news story is getting legs. So a year ago you could say, maybe in 2012, but definitely by 2015. Now you can safely say, not until at least the end of 2012. Isn't that better.


    Well that is if it was today? But its not. Maybe its more likely to be the new DI 2.5 L ICE toyota has announced or how about the 2L turbo. See, if you are going to speculate, you should at least be up on toyota announcements. How about a tesla/toyota rav4 phev?


    No rocket science here. But how much more hp will it have. How much will it cost? See you got nothing here.


    Or maybe 3 if you read your own quote above. 1-3 years. Same stuff we were speculating about before the announcement :)
     
  12. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    1,877
    20
    27
    Location:
    PNW
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Hybrid RAV4 would have to get better mileage than the current AWD Lexus RH450/Toyota Highlander which push 28-29. RAV4 would have to be 35 mpg combined. A PHEV AWD RAV4 that could get 20 miles EV with a 35 mpg hybrid mode might hit a sweet spot for a lot of people.
     
  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    42,855
    14,324
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    Maybe they're waiting to see how the Outlander PHEV works out?
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    17,228
    8,301
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Or after the next gen Prius. They likely are holding the new goodies for it. So releasing a Rav4h without will quickly be dated.
     
  15. Quentin

    Quentin Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    335
    88
    0
    Location:
    West Virginia
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    You can get a 6MT, AWD version in England.
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    42,855
    14,324
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    True. If that interview is true, maybe they're waiting to shoehorn the next gen THS.
     
  17. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    2,606
    490
    0
    Location:
    Sunnyvale CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Notice how Toyota is following the launch of the original RAV4 EV exactly this time around? In that article, they say they have no plans to offer an electric RAV4 for the new model. So again we have the electric version start production at the tail end of a generation that stops being produced shortly after its release.
    Lame move, Toyota. Seriously.
     
  18. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,544
    2,118
    1
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    I do not know... as far as I can tell, the Rav4 EV is simply a CA compliance car. I'm not sure I'd read much more into it.

    See My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread. (Tony sold both his Leafs, including the one he used for the BC2BC run and now has a Rav4 EV.)

    It is unfortunate that that yes, the Rav4 EV is based on what soon will be a previous gen platform sold alongside the current ICEV version.
     
  19. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    2,606
    490
    0
    Location:
    Sunnyvale CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    I know it's just a compliance car, and I'm not reading into it at all. However, I think it's ridiculous that they are essentially repeating the same mistake twice. Instead of generating extra demand for the EV by making it the first grade of the new-gen platform to be released to the public, they release the EV on an old platform, making any future potential expansion – even if there is strong market demand – much more costly and time-consuming.
     
  20. Quentin

    Quentin Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    335
    88
    0
    Location:
    West Virginia
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Or this Rav EV is essentially a learning experience where they limit production (and losses), so when they build for the new platform in a couple years they can make engineering decisions that give them half a chance at breaking even. It essentially buys a little time until the sales environment is better for EVs. Toyota is losing a boatload of money on each Rav EV.
     
Loading...