Featured Toyota unveils new TNGA-based engines and transmissions and improved hybrid systems

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by GasperG, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    Within the five years to the end of 2021, Toyota plans to introduce 17 versions of nine new engines; 10 versions of four transmissions, including multi-geared automatic transmissions and a new kind of continuously variable transmission; and 10 versions of six hybrid systems.

    The first announced member of the lineup is a 2.5-liter engine that has one of the world’s best thermal efficiencies: 40% when used in gasoline-powered vehicles and 41% when used in hybrid vehicles (HEVs).


    Green Car Congress: Toyota unveils new TNGA-based engines and transmissions and improved hybrid systems; deployment begins in 2017

    Looks like new Camry will have something to show.
     
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  2. carpedal

    carpedal Member

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  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Wow. In that case, I would expect the new Camry Hybrid to at least match the Gen 3 Prius' 50mpg combined. It also bodes well for all other hybrids using the 2.5HSD setup (RAV4, ES300h, IS300h, GS300h). The multi-stage THS-II could work for the GS450h. It looks bulky but I see that it incorporates the MGs into the transmission so it might take up the same amount of space as the 10AT. I think the multi-stage THS-II will be used in the new LC500h, right? The one that has a 4-speed automatic and a PSD to provide 10 virtual gears?
     
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  4. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    That's exactly what the multi-stage THS-II is.

    One thing that hasn't been made clear yet is, will it keep faking gears in drive? Because that's silly, and hurts performance and efficiency...

    That said, this is interesting, in 4th gear, it can actually kill the engine... when on the vehicle speed limiter, for those times you're bombing down an unrestricted section of Autobahn at 250 km/h (155 mph), and you want your engine off on a downhill:

    [​IMG]

    41% thermal efficiency out of the new 2.5 liter is pretty incredible, and with similar performance to the 2AR-FSE used in the RWD 300h cars overseas that was at 38.5% thermal efficiency. (Also, 151 kW - 202 hp - out of the non-hybrid 2.5 liter, and 40% efficiency? And we're talking about a base Camry motor here, really.)

    Also interesting is the fact that Toyota's moving to a Mazda-style scalable architecture for all engines, but adding the ability to scale cylinder count, too. The new 2.5 liter is the first of that family, but it looks like it'll replace all of the main engine families Toyota's using, I think - NR (1.2-1.5 4-cylinders, which hasn't been around for long - it itself is the replacement for the NZ engine that our current Yaris and Prius c use), ZR (1.6-2.0 4-cylinders), AR (2.0-2.7 4-cylinders), GR (2.5-4.0 V6s), and UR (4.6-5.7 V8s). Pick your cylinder size, pick your cylinder count, get an engine out of that, then optimize that variant.

    That said, it's clear that TNGA supports the legacy engines, too - the Gen 4 obviously is still using a 2ZR-FXE variant, the LC 500 uses a 2UR-GSE, the LC 500h uses a 2GR-FXS I believe, the C-HR uses your choice of 2ZR-FXE, 8NR-FTS, or 3ZR-FAE... And, there's some applications of TNGA components on legacy platforms, apparently - seems the Lexus RX and Highlander are using the new TNGA 8-speed automatic.
     
    #4 bhtooefr, Dec 12, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
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  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The Highlander units have moved to the Sienna too.

    It's the same with TSS-P. Last year's Camry had DRCC, PCS, Auto High Beams and LDW but it wasn't called TSS-P. I guess there must be something different from last year's suite to this year's suite.
     
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Here's the Japanese news release in English. It has videos (on the sidebar) and links to each subsection (e.g. the engine or the transmissions)

    Features of Toyota's New Powertrain | TOYOTA Global Newsroom


    • 20% improved fuel consumption for the 2.5 litre AR engine (I'll guess Toyota is targeting close to 50mpg combined for the next gen Camry. Might be closer... 47-48mpg)
    • Redesigned intake valve for better tumble ratio (same thing they did with the Gen 4's ZR engine)
    • Multi-hole direct injector for better air-fuel mixture by optimising spray design

    The direct-shift 8-speed automatic transmission is similar to others that are already out there (If I'm not mistaken, it's similar to the TLX 4 cylinder's transmission and a spiritual successor to the LFA's and IS-F's 8-speed direct shift transmissions).

    Basically it allows earlier lockup of the torque converter so that the engine is directly feeding power to the transmission, improving driving feel. Larger range of gears allow the engine to stay in a lower rpm for better fuel efficiency.
     
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  7. Spindifferent

    Spindifferent Member

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    Would be great to see the 8th Gen Camry Hybrid get 47+mpg. I fear that I'll be leaving the Prius for the Camry Hybrid due to uncomfortable Gen 4 Prius seats for my wife.
     
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  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Don't like the styling but rest of the narative sounds good. don't love the styling of current car either, but ... it is the best seller of segment. This thing is going to hurt prii sales, but that is probably a good thing.

    Atkinson valve timing and hsd naturally keeps the engine in a low torque low rpm efficient place when at a steady velocity. Giving more electrical power (possibly more powerfull mg2) is a cheap way to add to acceleration, and ford seems to do this on their fusion, which is slower 0-60 but seems more connected when accelerating at speed.

    One problem with hsd and all other cvt type implementations is disconnected feel. My guess is with the di in the new engine the sweet spot is pretty large for efficiency. Giving virtual gears should provide some with better driving feel with low impact to efficiency.

    Lower CG and wider stance should also improve handling. The current camry hybrid feels very fast 0-30, but hadles like a limp noodle. Changes won't make it drive like a bmw, but should definitely improve its character.
     
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