Toyota vs. GM

The print issue shows a Prius coming at you across a center spread, blowing SUVs and Hummers aside in its wake. Amazingly, Newsweek's online poll of which company makes the best vehicles is only 18% in Toyota's favor, with 86,000 votes. Malorn must be burning up his keyboard voting...

 

GM has always been a target to reach for Toyota, which has been afraid of Honda constantly.
However, Honda is a company run by engineers. They don't have as much interest in market share as in technology itself. Honda never see hybrid as the future but a transient solution. Honda see super clean diesel and fuel cell technology as the future. And, they have very good traction on both technology. Simply put, I would buy Honda stock rather than Toyota's. For long term, that is.

 

That was a great article, that does suck that GM didn't want to take a risk on their EV1, I liked that car. I think I was 10 when they were testing that car on the track. ha ha even I knew where the future was heading

 

Hi All,

Good to see GM leadership finally seems to have its head out of the sand.

 

It is an interesting article. Two statements stood out in my mind.

The first was that "workers stop the line thousands of times a day" to maintain quality. Interpreted literally, it means that in a 24 hour period (assuming the plant runs around the clock), the line is stopped at least 2000 times ("thousands" is plural), which even at only 5 seconds per stoppage (a WAG) would add up to nearly 3 hours of down time per day if I'm doing my math correctly. If this interpretation is correct, that does seem like quite a commitment to quality!

The second was that Toyota is on track to earning a record profit of $13 billion this year. Where's the outrage over this fact? Remember when Exxon posted record profits?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mini2prius @ Mar 11 2007, 07:19 AM) [snapback]403733[/snapback]</div>

yea but we all love toyota, right?

 

http://priuschat.com/index.php?s=&show...st&p=401512

 

LOL I love how the poll for which company makes better cars is currently 82% GM and 18% Toyota. What a joke! People get soooooo caught up in the PRO USA hooplah that they ignore any imperfections in GM's vehicles. The fact is that pretty soon Toyota will have more plants and employ more Americans than GM, so how is that bad for the American economy?

Don't get me wrong, I hope GM and the others can right their ships and go in the right direction, but I'm not going to feel bad for them just because they are 'American' companies. I'm loyal to whoever gives me the most for my money, and right now that's Toyota.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(quagmire0 @ Mar 12 2007, 04:33 AM) [snapback]404144[/snapback]</div>

Just because Toyota assembles cars in the USA, does not mean they engineer, design or manufacture the millions of parts here. Those processes are where the real value addition occur - and they are not happening here.

Lets make sure you remember what you said the next time Illinois is in a recession... or the next time my company dumps yours in favor of a contractor in India...

Don't be so smug... what goes around, comes around...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Mar 12 2007, 05:47 AM) [snapback]404148[/snapback]</div>

Read the original article...US automakers neither use only us parts, nor do they only assemble all of their cars here. Overall, there is not a single automaker anywhere that uses ONLY US engineering and/or manufacturing (design is more difficult to determine--from where do ideas come?). US automakers are just as responsible as any others for their current state/status.

As to GM...can you say EV1????

READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE.

(Oh, yeah--you're right--there is not a single Prius built in the US. Obviously this is the prime reason Detroit's in the crapper.)

 

there really is no comparison. GM made the mistake of not developing the hybrid technology.Toyota ran with the technology. Why you might ask? In japan, where the prius first made its debout, gas prices were relatively high. High price of gas = alternative fuel/hybrid.

GM made the mistake of not producing a followup to the EV1, They didnt because they were afraid to take a loss on the technology. If they had continued to develop the technology we all might be driving some sort of GM electric car. The technology was there.. they just chose not to take a risk. Also GM puts out cars before they are ready... Why? because they are always playing catch up. Toyota takes the risks on technology and then prefects them. Chrysler seems to do the same thing too but there quality control is less then desired. That new avenger looks promising for them .. just not willing to pay 30k for it loaded

While toyota was developing the hybrid technology, sales of SUV's from the big three were at all time highs.
Chrysler was selling there minivan, Ford selling the explorer and GM following up with similar models in all there lines (even buick and cadillac have suv). Why was this? Well considering that gas was 1.25 it didnt matter to them to make cars/suv/trucks fuel effiecient. You couldnt get an american car with fuel economy in the 30's. GM since the early 70's has always followed the crowd releasing there "modern models" years later then chrysler or Ford. We were told "gas will never see 2.00 a gallon." Well surprise it is now up to 2.75 in new york and rising.

Toyota and honda are on the leading edge of technology. That is why I bought my prius. After doing extensive research there hybrid system actually works well. I love the design and the fact that I can carry groceries, suitcases, basically what ever I need and still get 45+mpg. I also like how everything is layed out. That is just my 2 cents

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Mar 12 2007, 07:47 AM) [snapback]404148[/snapback]</div>

Exactly right. Remember every point of US market share Toyota gains costs 18,000 Americans their very good jobs. Those are your neighbors and relatives. Gm and Ford and Chrysler have " bought-out" twice as many Americans from their jobs just in the last year as Toyota employs in the US in total. I am not sure if some of you will ever understand what this means to all of us.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill Merchant @ Mar 11 2007, 01:54 AM) [snapback]403692[/snapback]</div>

I missed the memo!

 

That sucks. However, if someone wishes to buy a hybrid car (something comparable to the Prius), what should they do? What do you suggest? I think a HUGE part of the issue is the fact that GM does not even offer an automobile to compete in the hybrid market. Please spare me anything about a car that I cannot yet buy (i.e. the Volt). I have always driven GM cars and trucks, but the fact of the matter is that they don't make what I want anymore. What do you suggest I do, bearing in mind that I think nationalism is a ridiculous concept and would never consider buying a product just to float an american company. The free market economy does not tolerate mediocraty; and ultimately, without government interference, the consumer has the final say in which companies survive. GM has obviously been ignoring a large fraction of consumers for too long.

If we are going to point fingers and complain, GM needs to look in the mirror. Regardless the reason, many people have chosen to buy Toyota over GM. The rationale behind this decision, valid or not, is none of GM's concern except insofar as they are obviously doing something wrong. I have often felt that GM builds what they want the consumer to buy/drive rather than what the consumer wants. That concept works fine in the absence of strong competition, but obviously fails miserably otherwise. So: we (americans, GM, whoever) can complain to no end, but it doesn't change a thing--THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!! Stop complaining and build what we want.

As I see it, I have two choices:

1. Buy the prius because it offers exactly what I want in an automobile.
2. Buy GM's equivalent (which is???) with a large order of "freedom fries" on the side.

Which is it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ewhanley @ Mar 12 2007, 10:44 PM) [snapback]404573[/snapback]</div>

If you are set on a Prius GM does not offer an alternative yet. You are NOT correct when you state that GM and Toyota are operating in a "free-market" with no government interference. Remember about 50% of everything toyota Corp sells in this country is imported and built with workers who have a completely different health-care and pension system by a company operating under a completely different tax-code. Also there is no real foreign competition in Japan due to numerous government and other barriers to foreign competition. Toyota builds some great cars and trucks, but there are many other factors at work in the trade game.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mini2prius @ Mar 11 2007, 10:19 AM) [snapback]403733[/snapback]</div>

I'd assume that the "thousands of times a day" is spread across all of the Toyota plants, not just one...

 

Ahhh ... that would seem more likely!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mooney @ Mar 13 2007, 11:40 AM) [snapback]404869[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Mar 12 2007, 08:47 AM) [snapback]404148[/snapback]</div>

The last F-150 I was under sure seemed to have a lot of Heche en Mexico parts on it, including the transfer case. You pays your money and you takes your chances.