Toyota Will Delay Lithium Battery Intro in Hybrids

Argh,

Don't break my heart! While I had lost hope on plug-in (from the start) in 09 I was hoping to LiIon batteries as they would give some real EV range without too much space taken up. I'm sure NiMh can do reasonable EV range but they will take up more space.

It will be interesting to see what they come out with.... Only thing that perked my ears are the prius stationwagon mentioned.... THAT would be a killer car for me

 

How dare Toyota put safety before MPG...

Come on folks, the lithium-ion battery technology just isn't where it needs to be yet. Give it a few more years and you'll see it start to proliferate.

 

Not sure it's so much about safety as durability....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jun 14 2007, 10:15 AM) [snapback]461497[/snapback]</div>

I need a AWD, high MPG hybrid. Why is it that the only manufacturer that is approaching this market is Ford (I no longer buy Fords, been there - done that). Please Toyota, add a rear wheel motor to the Prius as an option (as in the Highlander), or produce a Rav4 hybrid. My wife's 1997 Subaru Outback has 205,000 miles and will need to be replaced someday.

JeffD

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jun 14 2007, 10:38 AM) [snapback]461513[/snapback]</div>

"Toyota Motor Corp., worried over the safety of lithium-ion battery technology, has decided not to use that technology for the initial versions of its next-generation Prius gasoline-electric hybrid car, whose launch was scheduled for the autumn of 2008, according to individuals familiar with Toyota's product plans."

 

Bummer.

Although, they gotta do, what they gotta do.

 

Toyota thinks their collective s*it doesn't stink, reminds me of General Motors say 25 years ago. They are dropping balls all over the place, and finally the problems are beginning to pile up because of the arrogance. The opening is now there for GM to go right on by Toyota over the next few years as far as fuel/alternative fuel/emissions technology. It will be very interesting. I wish Ford and Chrysler would get their acts together, I think Cerebrus will help Chrysler a ton.

 

Malorn,

I hope you are right and GM emerges as the "green" company. I think it's harder to do then to say and so far I have ONLY seen press releases and promises made.

So while Toyota might be "dropping balls all over the place" they are at least producing "green" cars. It's easy for GM to not drop the ball as they haven't even picked it up yet. Even if they claim over and over that they will.

I think most companies have realized that catching the hybrid system is not as easy as a press release. I'm sure in time GM (and others) will catch up. I doubt it will be as fast as you think. I hope I'm wrong. We need real "green" competition!

Looking at the american big three GM is the only one that seem to be serious about going after the "green" sector.

 

I wonder if it got something to do with the PEVE settlement with 3M over the Li-ion. They already paid dearly to Cobasys for the NiMH. The priority to cut cost might be higher and end up keeping the NiMH? Just a speculation.

 

Even if the batteries are bigger and "take up more space" does it really matter if the car is designed around that?

Currently the battery is under the back seat and it has caused me no problems due to size at all. In fact I have never even seen it. If they have to be larger they will design it so it works, this is why they have engineers and goals to make new technology seamless with what we are used to.


As a side comment on Batteries I think its funny how many people are scared of battery replacement and are horrified at the possibility that it could need replacement. When its just another part.

I ask these same people in the same shock and awe look,

"can you believe that most cars go though several sets of tires over the cars life!" I mean you can spend thousands on them!

"or even on a 12volt battery, after a few years the lead acids go bad and need to be replaced! really!

"I cant believe a car has to have an oil change every 5000 miles. How dare they make a car that needs to be maintained like that. Its a scam, if you dont do it the engine dies and it costs thousands to replace!

"Can you belive that after a couple hundred thousand miles most cars could need to have the engine rebuilt, I mean you have to take it out of the car, and replace things like rings and pistons and the camshaft. I mean the camshaft and other moving parts wear down and you have to replace them! OMG this is horrible. And usually you have to pay a professional to do it!!!


And breaks, can you belive that standard breaks on a car wear out over time! you have to go to specialty shops to have them redone and replaced!!! I am mortified by this fact! how could they build a car that needs that done too it!


After some time they get the point! but there are others out there that just done either.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jun 14 2007, 11:01 AM) [snapback]461611[/snapback]</div>

The Chevy Volt will leapfrog the Toyota Hybrid system and it is very real. As for Toyota, what about the announcement that their entire fleet will be hybrids by 2020 or whatever date they gave, not just PR? Toyota is having incredible amounts of recalls and quality problems, and the Tundra launch is turning into a disaster.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jun 14 2007, 11:28 AM) [snapback]461634[/snapback]</div>

The stories about "Tundra Success" are reprints of PR releases from Toyota's PR machine. If you look back at their original forecast, it is a disaster. 0% for 60 months on a toyota product that is 4 months old? I am sure you can connect the dots. As for the 13 year hybrid claim, how is that different than GM claims about teh Volt? Oh one claim comes form Toyota and one from GM?

 

The *real* evil in this whole picture is the organizations that
are *sitting* on good battery technology and bringing armies of
lawyers to bear against anyone who wants to go out and make real
progress. *They're* the ones killing the electric car, and they'll
be first up against the wall if people remember that well enough
when all the infrastructure goes down in flames.
.
_H*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 14 2007, 11:36 AM) [snapback]461574[/snapback]</div>

Although I do not like hearing this, I will give it to Toyota for at least claiming that they are interested in not releasing a POS.

For whatever the reason is, I would not say this is about arrogance. IMHO, if it were about arrogance, Toyota would release the vehicle with LiIon batteries even IF there were a chance of fire. Other manufacturers constantly release vehicles with big problems that they either know about or do not know about. If those other manufacturers do release vehicles with known "big" problems, I would consider that arrogance in the least if not outright irresponsibility, and, of course, stupidity. There are other manufacturers that seem to think that they can do no wrong and that people will buy whatever POS they decide that the people want. That is arrogance. Look anywhere in Detroit for examples as well as companies like BMW since BMW has one of the worst, if not the worst, repair histories there is.

That said, I noted that the article said that Panasonic was the supplier of the LiIon batteries. Perhaps what Toyota is not saying is that they are locked into some sort of contract with Panasonic, or they do not want to deal with another manufacturer's batteries.

There has been at least one announcement in recent months of batteries up to the task of PHEV usage. If it is not the case that Toyota is locked into a contract with Panasonic, perhaps they are either testing or going to test batteries from other manufacturers - perhaps they will even test batteries from one of the companies that has announced PHEV capable batteries. IMHO, that would be the smart thing to do as Toyota has publicly stated that they believe current LiIon technology is not up to PHEV tasks. That statement came before the press release of PHEV capable batteries being released.

IMHO, it would also be a wise idea for Toyota to look into the quick charging LiIon batteries that were announced a couple of years ago by (at least I think it was announced by) Mitsubishi - even if it means that the two competing companies have to come to some sort of technology sharing agreement.

All the best,
Matthew

 

From a pure business perspective, why should Toyota be in a hurry to replace the current version of the Prius? The current Prius is selling very well and there is absolutely no competition. I'd suspect that when the demand for the current vehicle starts to decline, then Toyota will bring out the next model.

Personally, like the rest of the folks on Priuschat; I'd like to see the next version today. However, Toyota is a business, and nothing drives a business like money...

Keith