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Toyotas failure

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by andyprius, Aug 12, 2010.

  1. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    Except for myself, this subject has not been broached in any depth. Why didn't Toyota clarify in thier owners manual that the computers in the Prius can be refreshed? Just as you would refresh your routers/ computer, the Prius can be " Rebooted " by removing the negative lead on the 12V battery and leaving it disconnected for about 15 min. I forgot about my disconnect and left it off for 4 hours. But, it does not hurt anything. ( my mpg gain is about 7 mpg ) Should anybody be so inclined AND suffering from lower mpg heed my suggestion, please post your results. One qualification: You did not have your 12V replaced lately. ( that would qualify as a reboot ):rockon:
     
  2. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    I've disconnected my 12V battery twice since I have owned the car and both times I experienced the opposite from your description; the mpg went down for about two tankfuls before it returned to the "normal" mpg that I was getting before disconnecting it.

    In the service manual, it does describe that you have to "reinitialize" the vehicle after disconnecting the 12V battery - you must perform the initialization of the auto up function for the drivers power window.
     
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  3. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    Strange. Anybody else?
     
  4. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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  5. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    For as long as I can remember Toyota vehicles always can be "rebooted" to turn off the check engine lights, and other warning lights. Once it turns on, it would recheck all the electronics and engine. If the problem still persist, then the warning lights will come back on. My oxygen sensor broke on my Tacoma. I replaced it, disconnected the battery and reconnected it. It turned off the ck eng lt and erased all the codes. This was verified with OBD scantool
     
  6. Colonel Ronson

    Colonel Ronson New Member

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    pretty much any car's ECU can be reset if you disconnect the battery long enough. But why bother, if you had an OBD scan tool you could've just cleared the code yourself. easy doin =)
     
  7. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Not all OBD-II scantool can clear codes. The one I have access to only reads the fault codes. That's why I knew the oxygen sensor was bad.
     
  8. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I have had a heck of a time convincing people that the Prius learns the driving habits of its owner and will optimize itself to them. Just because their car doesn't, they project that ineptitude onto the Prius.
     
  9. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    Perhaps some of the reduced mpg cases involve something the ECUs have 'learned' that is actually hurting fuel economy. This would account for andy's mpg recovery.

    Barring such unexplained mpg reduction, rebooting cannot help.

    In all cases, rebooting will require the ECUs to relearn things, some of which normally improve mpg, explaining hobbit and dogfriend's experience.

    When my PC locks up or slows to a crawl, I reboot and voila! When not having trouble, a reboot just takes my time.
     
  10. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

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    I had my 12V battery disconnected for a couple of hours earlier this year while working on the car.

    I was pleasantly surprised to find that the settings for the seat belt beepers and the reverse beeper were retained. I did have to reset the audio system buttons and some of the settings in the Nav system, the destinations and addresses were retained however. The trip mileage records and fuel consumption history were gone and the clock needed to be reset. I had checked the codes before and didn't have any so I don't know for sure if they would have been reset or not but I think they would have been.

    After restarting I noticed the idle speed was a bit high and the car ran a little weird for the first few miles but everything was back to normal after 20 miles or so. I think virtually all cars made within the last 10 or 15 years have "tuned themselves" as you drive and will reset the engine management system when the battery is disconnected for 15 minutes or so.
     
  11. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    ty for the link, it's always refreshing to read any of Hobbits posts. The subject at hand was/is: " in the process of rebooting: did you observe a radical change in mpg"? either for worse ( your case ) or for the betterment? (my case). As for computer learned driving behavior, my driving behavior has not changed and I doubt yours has, either. This whole theory is a bit too much for me (learned driving behavior) but, anything is possible. It is more likely that all the info in bits and bytes starts working in the proper sequences again and the computers return to thier default mode. I think of it as a computer tune-up. W/O points, plugs timing, knocking, etc. If it turns out that rebooting is an accepted method of refreshing, and returning the car to original parameters and eliminating outstanding codes, then, the Toyota engineers definitely knew about and the information should have been inserted in the owners manual for all generation Priuses. I. II, & III. Perhaps in the near future, auto-rebooting will be standard.
    :cheer2:
     
  12. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    The computer tuneup theory is silly. Rebooting your Prius can help mileage, but only if the electronics are locked in a disallowed state. This has happened a few times, mostly with the JBL power amplifier, where the amp fails to turn off with the car. Extra power consumption equals lower mileage, plus, of course, the risk of a dead battery.

    As for generally improving your Prius mileage as if you were doing a computer tuneup, it doesn't happen. There is a very real chance that you will see improved mileage on the display, but this comes from dumping lower mileage from the running average. It's not a true improvement.

    Most modern cars are self tuning. Over time the engine ECU adjusts to the characteristics of the engine and fuel. Some also adjust to driver habits. Resetting the ECU causes the tuning parameters to be lost, resulting in poorer performance while the ECU relearns.

    Tom
     
  13. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    I just tanked up so I will see on the next refill and compare the mfd with the calculated results. I am interested in seeing if your 2nd Para. is correct.
     
  14. spyderx

    spyderx Member

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    Just rebooted today and it does seem to help a lot!
    So far, it's gained upto 46mpg from 42mpg and I believe it's still climbing rapidly after 15 miles from rebooting...

    Strange that my 1st Prius G3 did not require this reboot, I was consistently returnning 45mpg real world regardless of my driving style.

    Maybe this later Prius built YE is not the identical setup as earlier versions. I've been meaning to post this effect...
     
  15. jburns

    jburns Senior Senior Member

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    I rebooted mine 5 times in a row, inflated the tires to 100 psi and turned off the air conditioner. I had a half tank of gas and set off on a 200 mile trip. When I returned home I had a full tank. :rockon::cheer2:
     
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  16. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    Well, that proves it, rebooting is miraculous,
     
  17. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    This effect is interesting and my point is to get more people involved in rebooting and to document over at least 2-3 tankfuls. Of course IF: anybody also gets worse mileage that would also be interesting. You wii note my Prius is a 2005, so what am I doing in the Gen III thread? My theory is that this "effect" occurs regardless of the Prius generation. :D
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe toy will design the eleven so it will reboot everytime you turn it off and on like your computer without forgetting your current average so we won't have to keep going thru all this.:)
     
  19. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    The mathamatical repercussions of living with a 7 mpg drop. My case: from 44mpg to 51mpg= 7mpg X 12 gal (round up tank cap) =84 total mpg lost in one tank. TIMES 52 ( assuming one tanks up every week ) = 4368 miles in one year! devided by 44 mpg = 99.27 gallons! X $4.00 = A total waste of $397.00. Do this for 5 years and it's $1985.00! It probably very easy for the average driver (hybrid or not) to not notice what seems to be a small drop in mileage, after all most drivers do not even calculate thier mileage but only notice that it seems to be costing more lately. Which is put down to higher gasoline prices.:rolleyes:
     
  20. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    That would be great.