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Trading in a 2020 Prius Prime for a 2020 Leaf... Should I?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Salamander_King, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    So, I have a deal cooking for trading in my 2020 Prius Prime LE for a new 2020 Leaf SV. I've thought a BEV with a short-range was not practical for our lifestyle. But after 10 months of COVID-19 restriction, our lifestyle has changed enough that I am thinking ~150miles of pure electric drive is enough for most of my needs. If needed, we have an SUV (Pathfinder Hybrid) for our long-distance drives, although it is far more gas-guzzler than PP is.

    The deal would not cost me anything after the tax credit. But in the long run, Leaf or any BEV is going to cost more than keeping PP assuming that the gas price stays low. I also have to install L2 EVSE, which is already purchased but I need to have an electrician install a new 240v line to our garage which will cost a quite bit. A part of me wants to have a whole new BEV experience with Leaf, but another part of me thinks PP is serving me very well and I should just keep it.

    What do you think of pros and cons of switching Prius Prime to a short-range Leaf? Would you do it? Why, Why not?
     
    #1 Salamander_King, Dec 23, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    does the leaf have enough range with heat on and diminished winter mileage?
     
  3. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Is the Leaf really up to a reliable 150 mile range ?
    Are you really in love with the pathfinder ??

    For most people in the US, it would not be a good swap but for you, maybe it would be.

    I still see an electric only vehicle as only being a good choice for a "city cave dweller" who never leaves New York or Chicago.
     
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  4. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I am going with the All-weather package on SV trim. It comes with a heat pump, heated seats, a heated steering wheel. I don't know the typical loss of EV range on LEAF with the heat on during winter, but I would estimate that to be 25-30%. On the coldest day with high heating demand, maybe up to 50% especially after a few years of battery degradation. That still gives me ~75miles of EV range, which is fine for my regular commuting, that's if I ever go back to that routine.
     
    #4 Salamander_King, Dec 23, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
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  5. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Let me re-phrase:
    Where does that 150 mile range come from.....Nissan or practical owner reports ??
     
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  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    EPA rated 150 miles EV range. Since I have never owned Leaf, I do not know what real-life EV range is going to be for my use case. If it is similar pattern as PP, then I would expect 1.5 times of EV range in summer which would be 225 miles, and 0.7 times EV range in winter which would be 105 miles.

    For this trade-in, I have to do it with PP to get an even price trade. Besides, we need a larger car for hauling, so trading the Pathfinder to Leaf will not work. I would like to get a smallish BEV as the in-town commuting only car for now. ln the future, I may consider trading the Pathfinder for another SUV or minivan that is PHEV, either Rav4 Prime or Pacifica PHEV are the possibility. But that is not the deal I am working on right now.
     
    #6 Salamander_King, Dec 23, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
  7. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    How is a Leaf even comparable to a Prime?
     
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  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I am not comparing those two cars. They are two totally different categories of cars. PP is by far the more refined, most likely more reliable, and more utilitarian, but it has an engine that runs on gas. Leaf is a BEV that runs on electricity only. I am willing to give up the more refined, reliable, utilitarian vehicle with a smaller more special functioning car if I can avoid using gas for my needs. Now, the question comes to my mind, that if I have to drive more of Pathfinder Hybrid to places where I can't drive Leaf but PP would have made it easily, then total gas usage may end up awash. So, it is not a clear-cut decision, but as I said, I plan to replace the Pathfinder Hybrid with a more efficient PHEV SUV or minivan in the future if I can find an equitable deal.
     
  9. Merkey

    Merkey Active Member

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    Have you considered the Leaf Plus or the Chevy Bolt? Both better miles per full charge.
     
  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Honestly, I would wait. The reason is that we are on the cusp of a slew of models being released between now and 2023 and all with significantly longer range than the LEAF. If you were considering the LEAF+, then maybe I'd say go for it but for the standard battery LEAF, I'd say wait.
     
  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I can do the Leaf Plus S for the same price as Leaf SV with All-weather Pkg and Technology Pkg. The problem is that Leaf Plus S will not come with a heat pump, heated seats, heated steering wheel. For my climate, those options are more important than mere 75 miles more of range. I have no intention of driving a BEV out on the highway even one with 300+ miles EV range, so the longer-range Plus offer has very limited value for me. Chevy Bolt is out of consideration because it no longer offers a tax credit. The same goes for Tesla, but even if it did offer tax credit and price came down, there is no way I would buy a car that can not be serviced locally.
     
    #11 Salamander_King, Dec 24, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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  12. Merkey

    Merkey Active Member

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    All good reasons.
     
  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, that's the thing. I have absolutely nothing to lose by waiting. I am happy with PP, and not that I have to have BEV. However, at this point, switching to BEV would mean I will be going for a car strictly for in-town commuting only daily driver. So, longer-range, unless it gets to be over 600 miles, would not make any difference for my choice. As I commented above, I can do a very similar no money swap with Leaf S Plus. But for me, 75 miles more EV range has very little value.
     
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  14. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Senior Member

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    Interesting how we have different values. I have never used the heated steering wheel or heated seats in my car and never intend to. But if I could get 75 miles more range I would probably pay an additional $10K for that. Have you looked at the resale values of used Leafs?
     
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  15. Sarge

    Sarge Senior Member

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    Hmm... as an owner of a 2014 PiP (Technology/Advanced) and a 2016 Leaf SL (wife’s car, but I drive regularly), here are my thoughts:

    Leaf advantages:
    - no gas / lower maintenance (duh)
    - more power, tighter handling
    - stiffer ride
    - more “fun to drive” in spirited manner ;)
    - L3 charge capability (though rarely used by us)
    - heated rear seats is a nice touch (which they oddly removed in Gen 2 I believe)
    - decent app for remote heat/etc (Canadian PiP doesn’t have one at all)
    - 360 camera is cool, but resolution is not great (PiP is better), backup cam is also quite small (due to the 360)

    Leaf disadvantages:
    - clear difference in fit & finish vs Toyota (issues with leather upholstery coming undone in a few places, some window seals were out of place on delivery, have had a few door alignment issues, brakes need frequent cleaning (they tend to “clunk”), have already had heated seats fail (fixed under warranty), 12v accessory outlet had to be replaced (warranty) driver door handle is separating and will need to be replaced eventually. (Btw, the car only has 45k miles in 4 years....).
    - the trunk is “deep” rather than wide & flat, which is less practical. Also has a rigid cover rather than roller, which is also not as convenient when you need the extra space (hard to store in vehicle)
    - the seating position is quite a bit higher than the Prius (which is a disadvantage IMO)
    - the Bluetooth audio is quite finicky, takes quite a bit longer to connect to my iPhone, despite being 2 years newer vehicle...
    - I find the leather seats quite a bit less comfortable than the softex in the Prime. My opinion.
    - I’m a big guy (6’2”), and the Leaf is quite a bit smaller for driver room. I put the seat all the way back and I still feel close to the wheel. In the PiP, I don’t even have to put the (electric) seat all the way back. Gen 1 Leaf also didn’t offer power seats, but I know Gen 2 does..
    - paint on the Leaf is *very* delicate and scratches/dings incredibly easy. (A rock bounced up on the hood when driving one time and left a ~3” scratch near the popped up headlight as it rolled up the hood).:cautious:

    Range on the 30kwh Leaf is rated at 172km, and I think that is realistic, but rarely did we run it that low. I do find the heat takes a pretty big hit on the range, but it’s fine since we rarely need the full battery. We lost one capacity bar so far, I think it was about 2 years old. Expecting another to drop off soon.

    For the Prius, much of the advantages are the opposite. I just find the PiP an overall solid car, more spacious, more comfortable, and practical cargo space. For sure it doesn’t have the pep of the Leaf or the “cool” factor, but I am not driving my car to impress people or boost my ego. I prefer something practical, reliable, efficient, and full of tech. :cool: My PiP is approaching 7 years and 180k km, and I don’t believe I have had any work done on the car outside of scheduled maintenance. (y)

    My wife absolutely loves her Leaf, and says she could never go back to a gasser. She loves the power of the line and beating people who don’t know the torque of EV. :LOL: She loves the quiet ride and handling too, the quirks are just quirks and she gets annoyed when I compare to Toyota. :rolleyes:

    As much as the PiP has been a solid car, I do look forward to upgrading to a Prime one day when the budget allows.... however, not sure I would swap a Prime for a Leaf of the same year; particularly if you already have a Prime and the EV range is generally adequate? I don’t think I would do it, but to each their own...

    Anyway, despite my input being on 1st Gen models, perhaps my comments may be of some value... good luck!
     
  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I don't have a heated steering wheel on my PP, but I have it on my wife's Pathfinder. That's probably the least needed of the All-weather package. The heated seats are the best feature in colder climates. I can drive my PP with just heated heat (no heat on HVAC) most of the time. The heat pump is going to be not very useful in our climate either but at least that will save valuable EV range when used. For my region, 150 miles from my home or 225 miles from my home is the same middle of nowhere. Oh, in fact since there are virtually no charge stations within ~250 miles radius of my home, the comparison should be 75 miles out or 112.5 miles out to be able to come home. Again, no difference where I can go by having 75miles more EV range.

    As far as the resale value goes, it is going to be very low. I am not sure how low it goes for the current model, but I would think $39K MSRP Leaf in 5 years would be less than $10k? But this is not so bad considering that I am buying a $39K MSRP car at below the $20K price tag after all the incentives and tax credits are counted.
     
    #16 Salamander_King, Dec 24, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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  17. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Thank you for your comments and suggestion. It is very useful to hear from someone with firsthand experiences. Yes, I am aware of the finish quality of the Leaf not being quite on per with Prius Prime, especially on the lower trims of Leaf. Luckily I am not so fond of leather or SofTex, so cloth seats will serve me just fine. I am also aware of the fact Leaf cargo is not as functional as PiP, but comparing to Prime with a raised deck, it may be just about the same functionality. The main reason I am considering to switch PP to Leaf is that 25 miles (actually more like 35 miles in summer) of EV range PP offer is always not long enough for my commuting or most of in town drive. My drive is almost always a bit longer than 25 miles, even now with COVID-19 restriction. I drive far less cumulative miles now I don't have daily commuting, but still, once a week in town errands are close to 40 miles. If PP had 40+ miles EV range as Honda Clarity or Rav4 Prime do, then I would keep it and use it as a virtual BEV.
     
    #17 Salamander_King, Dec 24, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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  18. dbstoo

    dbstoo Senior Member

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    I find it interesting that you think using a PP for 40 mile trips is a bad thing. I almost never drive more than the charge of my Prime, and as a result I have a tank of stale gas. I've thought about saving up errands so that I could stretch out the driving on errand day to more like 40 or so miles. If I drove 40 a day it would travel around 30 on battery and then 10 on gas. That's enough to heat the engine as well as use a bit less than a quart of gas.

    Dan
     
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  19. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Before Covid I belonged to a gym and one of the group I worked out with - a husband and wife purchased a used Leaf. They really liked the car and were excited about not having to buy gas anymore.

    If you are able to afford it,and it sounds like an even trade for you, then why not try it? If you don't care for the car you can get rid of it and go another direction.

    The couple I was speaking of bought a used Leaf so their financial stake wasn't a large financial outlay. If you are tentative or a little unsure but still want to try the BEV experience maybe a used Leaf is an option. Either way used or new I believe a Leaf is a wonderful affordable way to test out the BEV waters without giving away a financial arm and leg.

    They had talked about adding a Level 2 charger to their garage but because of the Leaf's range far exceeded their daily driving habits they abandoned that idea and found the 120 charging cord with the car was adequate for overnight charging the car up to full for their driving habits.
     
    #19 John321, Dec 24, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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  20. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    The LEAF would not likely be realistic for inter-city travel, other than for comparatively close cities (say the Dallas-Fort-Worth metroplex or around the San Francisco and Silicon Valley vicinity). However, for just day-to-day driving, which, for the majority of people, constitutes the majority of their driving needs, I’d expect a gen-2 LEAF to be just great!
     
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