Transmission Failure - Help!

Hi Bernie,

Pls provide the DTC logged so that we can confirm the likelihood that the transaxle is the problem.

Assuming that the transaxle indeed has failed and you wish to keep the car, one alternative would be for you to obtain a salvage part from a low-mileage accident vehicle hit from behind, and have an independent mechanic install it for you. The labor job is pretty big as the engine/transaxle must be removed from the car as one assembly; then the transaxle must be separated from the engine, the new one mounted to the engine, then the engine/transaxle is reinstalled into the vehicle.

 

My least favorite part of PriusChat is to read a first post like this one. Very Sorry Bernie but as Patrick suggests we need to develop a clear view of your options.

I do not know if there is a Canadian equivalent to the US Toyota Customer Experience Center tel. 800-331-4331. Perhaps we can ask Canadians how they have dealt with post-warranty issues in another thread?

Because the US fleet of 2001-2003 Prius is much larger, it may be that you'd have the best choice and price for a salvage transaxle from there. I do not know how shipping and customs costs would change the total.

Please let us know the next steps and maybe we can be of help?

 

P3000 is "HV Battery Malfunction" and P3009 is "High Voltage Leak Detected". They probably suspect a short in one of the electric motors, which is why they want to replace the transaxle. There's some discussion of it on this page.

 

Bernie,

Depending on your situation perhaps getting a $750 replacement installed (don't know how much the service will cost) would make sense...then before the year is up selling or trading the car in with the intention of getting a new/newer one? That way you could defer a potentially larger financial committment for a year without substantial risk. (And who knows, within a year somebody might rear end you and total the car anyway, or you might make a mistake and total your vehicle in relatively minor collision.)

You might even pursue what the dealer might be willing to do in a trade if you wouldn't mind getting a new/newer Prius. The market has softened quite a bit in the U.S. so perhaps you could get a decent deal in Canada. I've never done a trade in as a I prefer a simpler deal. However, you could first work out at another dealer what sort of price you could get on the model you want first (with no trade in the mix) so that you would know precisely how much your current dealer would give you in trade value. Obviously the dealer won't spend nearly as much on repair of your old vehicle for resale as what they would charge you. They will get salvage parts cheap, and they have no mark up on the labor.

Beware of salvaged Toyota parts though. I just got burned on a salvaged Tundra rear end that supposedly had a year warranty. (If you are thinking of buying or servicing a Toyota in Albany, Georgia get ready to be ripped off.) They don't call 'em stealerships for nothing!

 

Hi Bernie,

alanh provided a great link to the Art's Automotive website. This explains how the tech used a megger (a high voltage ohmmeter) to narrow down the problem, since P3009 can be caused by any component carrying high voltage, including the traction battery, the traction battery ECU, the main battery cables, the inverter, and the transaxle. Did your dealer tech perform a similar troubleshooting process to determine that the transaxle had failed (and not some other component)?

Considering that your two remaining codes are P3000 and P3009, it seems possible to me that the traction battery ECU is the culprit (since the traction battery itself was just replaced.) That ECU should be covered under warranty.

Since your car only has 102K km (or ~60K miles), is it possible that Toyota Canada might give you a break on the repair cost if in fact the transaxle definitely failed?

Your first post says the car "runs". Do you notice any driveability issues or reduced mpg? What warning lights are on?

 

Hi Bernie,

If the fault is intermittent, this is evidence that the transaxle may well be OK. If one of the electric motors had a wiring insulation fault resulting in DTC P3009 then I would expect the failure to be solid, not come & go.

The fact that you indicate the car is driving "OK" even when warning lights are on may be further evidence that the transaxle is not the problem. Usually when the transaxle is bad, unusual drivetrain noises are produced and driveability is impaired.

Before you expend the substantial labor $s associated with replacing the transaxle I urge you to have the diagnostic process performed (as demonstrated by the Art's Automotive website) to ensure that indeed the transaxle is the failed component.

 

yeah same with that customer i dealt with, ( i was going to think it was you, but my customer had over 300,000 km on it).

The car showed the same symptoms as yours, cold the codes go away, but as soon as the transaxle heats up something in there is not agreeing with the rest of the car...

900 is a bargain compared to the 4500 i quoted a month back.

He experienced extreme lack of power, when he got the warning lights, my guess is that the transaxle is limiting power to prevent some sort of further damage? So when your car's warning lights go off, can you still drive it normally? The only way he made the codes go away was to disconnect the ground portion of the 12 volt battery, but eventually the code will come back.

 

When MG2 begins to fail, a common fault is one or more stator windings begins to short and burn up. This causes:

• direct rotor coupling - so as the car moves, the MG2 rotor works like a generator, providing power that further heats the stator. This is often reported as a speed following 'rumble' or 'vibration.'
• MG2 over temperature - the extra energy heats MG2. We've seen reports of over 150 C, we're talking very, very hot

If the temperatures are cold enough, the transaxle heating won't be evident for short trips. However, the problem only gets worse.

You may get a clue by changing the transaxle oil. Regardless, please have a dry, 0.5 liter bottle to capture an oil sample. I'm especially interested in your report of what it looks and smells like.

Bob Wilson

 

Hi Bernie,

Thanks for the update. I am wondering whether its reasonable for you to disassemble the failed transaxle to see what it looks like inside? In particular, can you find burnt stator windings or other physical evidence of the failure? If so it would be great if you could post some photos!

If you change the transaxle fluid at 30K mile intervals, using the correct Toyota ATF T-IV, that should be sufficient. Its also important to remove the drain pan and clean the metal debris off the pan bottom and the rectangular magnet.

Good luck with your salvage transaxle, hope that it provides long service to you.

 

OK, thanks for letting us know that the failed transaxle is no longer accessible to you.

Regarding your observation above, the Toyota repair manual suggests removing the orange safety switch located at the traction battery, then allowing a couple of minutes to ensure that the inverter capacitors have discharged. When the inverter covers are removed, a voltmeter should be used to ensure that there's no high voltage present on the wires leading to the MGs. Its reasonable for untrained staff to be concerned about shock hazard, but it is easy to deal with this if you know the service procedure.

 

Glad to hear that you have a replacement transaxle installed Bernie. Since the history of that transaxle is not known, now (or soon) would be a good time to get a new transaxle gasket and the replacement fluid, and make the pan clean inside. If you find that it is already clean so much the better, but if there are metal fragments inside you want them gone.

 

Would it be too much to hope that the dealer's tech did this cleaning prior to filling the transaxle with ATF?