TTAC: Ford and GM Playing Hybrid Catchup

Other than some luck at the EPA game it sounds to me like the Fusion is quite the winner vs. the Camry. For a company "15 years" behind they are doing a darn good job maintaining.

I have nothing to say about Chevy but it seems to me in the Hybrid world it would go:

Toyota
Ford
Honda
everyone else

 

They are averaging 36.8 mpg (8 cars, 98k travelled) on Fuelly. (2010 FFH)

35.1 for TCH 2009 12 cars 372k travelled.

EPA is 39 and 34 respectively.

Is the Ford failing and the Camry overachieving or is the system flawed?

I don't get Prius EPA numbers in Atlanta road conditions.

 

I'm looking forward to it and I wish them the best.

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Indeed, the more the merrier and honestly I think a kick in the butt will just get Toyota moving.

 

It think Ford is the most likely company that could challenge Toyota's dominance the terms of hybrids because Ford's Fusion Hybrid sedan and the Ford Escape Hybrid small SUV uses a drivetrain very much like what Toyota did.

I expect Ford to use this design drivetrain when the C-Max Hybrid and the C-Max Hybrid Energi PHEV arrives next year.

 

Ford Fusion aside...which borrows heavily from HSD...

I think Toyota is still way ahead. Toyota is expanding the entire horizon of available Hybrid products while most others are barely on the horizon- period.

That's why I always champion the success of competitors. I want to see The Leaf do well...I'd like Hybrid Ford Fusion....I'd of wished GM would of released the Volt in higher volume and at a more accesible price point.

I own a Honda, and I love their products. But it's my opinion that IMA in it's current configuration is inferior to HSD. The primary reason I never really considered an Insight or Civic Hybrid.

Toyota is the leader. They have to keep moving...which is a good thing. I'd like to see them update their dash technology. Ford and Honda's dash displays I think are much better. Infact with the absence of a Non-Nav, LCD screen in the Gen 3, I think Toyota's dash has taken a step backwards. Wouldn't be a deal breaker to me, but I'd like to see Toyota take a look at Fords Fusion dash, and even Honda's dash's...and borrow from the dynamic and IMO more modern look and interactivity.

But on all other fronts? I score Toyota the clear winner. With competition hopefully growing for the benefit of everyone.

 

There is a very specific technical reason for this difference between the TCH and the FFH.

It's the ICE being used in each respectively.

In ICE technology there isn't much difference between the makers. However as technology advances one maker leaps slightly ahead of the others then the others catch up and leapfrog over.

Specifically the TCH, which arrived in Spring 2006, employs the 2.4L ICE which was the current technology in 2006 based on technology developed in the late 90's and early 2000's. Two years ago Toyota switched ICE's in the Camry to the more efficient 2.5L. However the TCH kept the older less efficient 2.4L ICE.

Ford OTOH when it introduced the FFH two years ago used its newest most efficient technology when it put its 2.5L into the first FFH.

When Toyota launches the new 2012 Camry later this summer it will also launch a new updated TCH with the more modern and more efficient 2.5L ICE.

I'm positive that the 2012 TCH when it arrives this summer will leapfrog the current, now outdated, FFH....but probably only by a slight margin - 1-2 mpg.

 

Toyota Camry Hybrid is a piece of sh*t, IMO. And yes I've driven a couple of them. Decent power when it gets going, but a trunk smaller than a backpack, terrible mileage, and an unbelievable lag from pedal all the way down to full throttle (I timed it when I was driving one it's 1.5-2 seconds or something silly).

 

Well comparing apples to apples Consumer's Report pegged both the Camry Hybrid and Ford Fusion Hybrid at the same 34 mpg. And they used the same test circuit for both cars. Just a couple of years apart since the Camry Hybrid has been out longer. The HS250h showed up at 32 mpg.

 

indeed... difference is in EPA optimizations, nothing else.

 

They do. I just find it an underwhelming vehicle and it carries a major price premium, which the Altima didn't (maybe does now, I don't know). And about the same mileage on highway as a non-hybrid is disappointing.

I guess all hybrids are pieces of crap to me compared to the Prius

 

If it's not Prius its CRAAAAP!

 

Traitor


On a serious note, how can anyone think Ford is in the same camp as GM. The Ford Escape hybrid SUV actually came out even BEFORE Toyota's SUV HyHi ... as well as the Lexus 400h. And as Tony points out, the Fusion is pretty slick.
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for some reason Ford has really eased off their hybrids lately, thats probably why.

 

I've also noticed the lack of quickness as compared to my Prius.

I've driven hundreds of them for as much as two days at a time. However again you've got to put the vehicle into perspective. It was designed in '02-'05 using the technology of that period. When it arrived in 2006 it was revolutionary and it was the leader of the segment by a huge margin.

OK so now it's 5-1/2 yrs old. It needs updating later this summer. This is the natural course of automotive technology.