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Typical MPG for Prime?

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by IABoy987, Aug 21, 2022.

  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    LOL @bwilson4web.

    I wonder if he keeps running out of charge on his Model 3 and what he does when that happens.
     
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  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I am sure he has done that and reported it somewhere. It is just not useful information for Prius owners in Prius Chat. ;)

    Here is the answer.
     
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  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    After 79,155 miles, never run out of charge. The Battery management system (BMS) is much more accurate than the gas tank gauge. The closest was finding my regular L2 chargers at Ozark AR truck stop were down. So I used a 110 VAC plug to get enough charge to reach an RV park. EV owners need to be flexible about charging.

    Technically our BMW i3-REx ran out of gas when the Electrify America station was DOA. So I turned back home and the Range Extender engine (REx) came on to drive home. I drove past hundreds of 110-120 VAC outlets and even a couple of L2, J1772 charging stations.

    BTW, when we owned a 2017 Prius Prime, on my first drive home, I used the 'charge mode' to fully charge the traction battery when the gas gauge reached "E". Eventually the ICE ran out of gas and the traction battery easily reached the next truck stop to fill up and biology break to head home. Later, I learned the Prius Prime required a 12V power reset if you ran out of both gas and EV charge ... VERY BAD BEHAVIOR.

    Our earlier Prius, 2003 and 2010, required three failed start attempts without gas to lock-up the starter. Then a 12V power reset was needed. This was much safer and easier than the despicable Prius Prime latch-up.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #23 bwilson4web, Aug 27, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
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  4. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    What was the "Prius Prime latch-up?"
     
  5. dbstoo

    dbstoo Senior Member

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    Knowing Bob, it's a made up term to make the Prius seem somehow lacking. Bob makes up a lot of things like that. Like the term "5 stop car", or his math that makes trading in a car worth $25,000 and paying something like $30,000 in cash makes buying a Tesla cheaper than a Prius. Personally, I figure that if you can't find gas within 100 miles after the low gas warnings start, then you probably should not be driving.

    Having said that... I did once manage to almost run my Camry out of gas. I stopped at a gas station to fill up just before entering a long mountain pass. I got distracted while checking tires and cleaning windows so I did not notice that the pump had reset itself. When I checked the pump it showed 17 gallons or so. That turned out to be how much the previous customer had pumped. Only after we got back on the freeway did I notice that the gas gauge said it was still less than 1/8 full. There were no places that we could turn around, so we proceeded to drive 30 miles or so to the next gas station. According to the "miles remaining" we had less than 2 miles of range left when we reached the gas station.
     
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The earlier Prius had a feature that if you ran out of gas and added a gallon, the car would start UNLESS you made three, failed attempts. So when I was doing my gasoline studies, I carried a spare, 1 gallon, gas container. But if you made three unsuccessful attempts, the engine/body computer would set the car in "no more attempts" mode ... latch up the car to a brick. However, we soon discovered doing a 12V power-reset would clear the latch.

    In contrast, the 2017 Prius Prime would latch up ... brick the car, upon running out of gas. The 12V power-reset still worked so the car did not have to be towed to a $ervice center.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  7. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I see, three strikes, hey? I don't think California's three-strikes law is put into practice anymore.

    California’s three-strikes sentencing law—criminal justice
     
  8. dbstoo

    dbstoo Senior Member

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    OK... Like I said, a made up term in an effort to make the Prius sound like it's somehow lacking. If you don't have enough gas to start the ICE, then it's quite sensible to prevent the driver from trying over and over until the traction battery is depleted. Please note that in order to reach that particular state Bob had to misuse the car and then deliberately ignore the car's warnings for over an hour.

    What happens in a Tesla if you deliberately drive it till the battery is 100% deleted while you are 10 miles from the nearest outlet?
     
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  9. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    @Salamander_King's video explains this. You need to have the car towed, but you only have 20 minutes before the tow mode stops and the car's wheels become locked. Also, if the power is completely gone, you are in trouble, and you need to jump-start the 12-V battery, assuming that you have one (some Teslas apparently don't). Jump-starting the 12-V lithium-ion batteries on newer Teslas can also be a hit-or-miss according to the instructions.

    Tesla Model 3 instructions for transporters

    If you read the instructions, you are not allowed to push the car for more than ten meters (33 ft).

    Not but least, the new 12-V lithium-ion battery dies on you rapidly and leaves you stranded.

    Tesla's new 12-V Li-ion battery dying rapidly under certain conditions—here's how to prevent it—Drive Tesla

    The Prius Prime is a far more reliable vehicle than the Tesla Model 3 without any question. Buy a Model 3 for a classy feeling and sporty performance. Buy a Prius Prime for practical, reliable, safe, and affordable transportation. Tesla Model 3 doesn't even offer standard safety options such as a blind-spot monitor, which I find indispensable, especially around here where people drive at night on pitch-dark freeways without their headlights on.
     
    #29 Gokhan, Aug 27, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
  10. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Back to the original question about HV range and mpg, here are the two long trips we've taken in our Prime. The first was over 6,000 miles to AZ, CO, WY, and back home through NE and IA. The other was up to Maine and back, just over 4,000 miles. First trip averaged 56.6 mpg calculated at the pump and the second was 56.2. 500 mile tanks are nothing, but often we went ahead and got gas when we needed a bio break so as not to have to stop again in another hour. The 604 mile tank was a little scary because we were in a sparsely populated part of NM and were way way way past zero on the gauge. It took 10.264 to fill the tank, so we were still in good shape but had no way to know it. For some odd reason, once the gauge goes blank and DTE hits the double dash, neither one goes negative. :D

    Screen Shot 2022-08-27 at 3.40.57 PM.png Screen Shot 2022-08-27 at 3.41.35 PM.png
     
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  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I don't know. There are reports of a small reserve even when the BMS shows 0%. There are reports of being towed to an L2 EVSE or NEMA 14-50 plug.
    So far, 79,454 miles for the past 31 days:
    upload_2022-8-28_2-54-8.png
    • $0.00/kWh - other, free charging
    • $0.12/kWh - home, residential rates
    • $0.35/kWh (varies by State) - supercharger
    So the costs for the past 31 days was:
    • $0.00*16% + $0.12*38% + $0.35*46% ~= $0 + $0.046 + $0.161 = $0.207 / kWh
    • $0.207/kWh / 4 mi/kWh = $0.052 / mile
    • $3.857/gallon / 56 MPG ~= $0.069 / mile
    The Model 3 was over the past 31 days, cheaper per mile, $0.017 / mile, than our former Prius Prime, 25% ~= ($0.017 / $0.069) cheaper. It is even less expensive when driving around town instead of ~3,000 miles in two round trips between Coffeyville KS and Huntsville AL

    Fortunately, my 2019 Model 3 has multiple blind spot monitoring modes:
    • Manual mirrors - like every other car on the road.
    • Autopilot graphic showing cars around the Tesla.
    • Autopilot lane changes - the car only changes lanes when it can safely do so including both speeding up and slowing down to fit in a spot.
    • Lane camera monitoring - optional, it shows the side camera views of the lanes to either side.
    I am curious who gave you such bad information.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #31 bwilson4web, Aug 28, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2022
  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Here is my most recent trip from almost a full tank of gas.
    upload_2022-8-28_9-39-10.png

    It showed 90 miles on DTE and the empty gas light has not come on yet when I filled it. Took only 8.6 gals of gas to fill it. The hand-calculated full tank method calculation comes to be 541.8/8.634=62.75MPG. But this includes a full charge on the traction battery, so the HV portion is more like (541.8-30)/8.634=59.89MPG (assuming 30 miles of EV mode). I am sure if I pushed further, I could have gone 640miles with ease.

    upload_2022-8-28_9-41-59.png
     
  13. dbstoo

    dbstoo Senior Member

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    Source of bad information? Probably from you.

    Two out of 4 "blind spot monitoring" modes you list are not bind spot monitoring. The blind spots are still there. The other of them rely on being in autopilot mode.

    MY car has the BSM package, and it can do really neat tricks like using sonar and radar to look for car or pedestrian cross traffic behind me as I back out of a parking space that has a stupid Tesla Model Y (or other oversized vehicle) blocking my vision to one or both sides.
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    We still prefer our 2019 Model 3 over the 2017 Prius Crime that became driveway art compared to our 2014 BMW i3-REx.

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. dbstoo

    dbstoo Senior Member

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    Wow. You made up a rhyme. Not that it has anything to do with the thread. Your illogical rants remind me of a teenager trying to make his claptrap piece of junk sound like a prize.

    Bless your heart.
     
  16. MTN

    MTN Active Member

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    Meh, our Prius Prime cost net of ~$18.7k; brand new. I think the TCO (total cost of ownership) will always be much lower than a M3.
    Also around town in EV mode, our Prime is more efficient than an M3; and we don't have to find chargers when on road trips.
     
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  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Based on technical content, PLOINK!

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. hans1

    hans1 Member

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    Crazy good DTE. Mainly city driving? Mine is usually around 500-550 miles. I wonder if driving at 75-85 mph makes a difference
     
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  19. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Mainly highway but I tend to drive at 57 mph. LOL Yes, that would make a huge difference.

    Latest DTE is 699 miles—probably due to colder temperatures and more 67-mph driving. I was heading toward 800 miles at one point.

    I get about 70-mpg actual fuel economy or better if I can keep my speed below 60 mph and the temperatures are warm. I doubt Gen 5 will match that.
     
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  20. Zed Ruhlen

    Zed Ruhlen Active Member

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    Just got back from a 1300 mile trip to California and averaged 55.7 the whole way. Never recharged the battery so that was all hybrid mode. Mind you that includes mountain passes and 75mph freeway driving. Pretty impressive. Way better than the EPA estimate.