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U.S. a source of world frustration on warming

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by DaveinOlyWA, Dec 12, 2005.

  1. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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  2. skruse

    skruse Senior Member

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    What official US policy doesn't get is the economics. Regardless of Kyoto, beliefs and current fuel economy standards, if you double your efficiency, you double your profit. So whether Kyoto is acceptable or not, whether you accept climate change or not, you double your income by doubling your efficiency. Yes, Bush, et al., are only short-term thinkers.
     
  3. davedog

    davedog Member

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    yeah this is kinda sad.... sigh, boo.
     
  4. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    How do you double your profit?
     
  5. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    By taking the *total* costs into account.

    Simple concept, but quite beyond the shrub.
     
  6. skruse

    skruse Senior Member

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    You effectively double your profit by cutting you input costs by one-half or more through efficiency. Rocky Mountain Institute's "Factor Four" (Lovins) and "Natural Capital" (Hawkins) discuss this and models this for industry and governments on a large scale. Critical thinking and engineering are used to advantage, rather than designing systems that continuously work against us.

    For example, while natural gas, petroleum, gasoline and utilities are going up in price, our cost of utilities have been 1/30th ($30 per month vs. $300 per month) compared to those around us. We have a Prius. We retrofitted our home to be more energy efficient 10 years ago (R-100 ceiling, triple pane windows, ceramic tile floors, caulking, weatherstripping). The "break even" point was 2.5 years (compared to surrounding homes). We have been reaping the "profit" ever since.

    Becoming more efficient means identifying connections between steps, eliminating waste streams, and sustainability.
     
  7. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

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    That's not what Europe is discovering...
    Kyoto to 'reduce Europe's growth'
     
  8. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

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    I would hope growth stops eventually. Unless we can build an extension to our current lump of rock...
     
  9. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

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    I would imagine that a lot of the US economic growth and emissions growth in the last 25 years has a lot to do with the US population growth.

    The 1980 Census reported a popuation of 248,709,873.

    The 2000 Census reported a population of 281,421,906.

    The current Census website says today's population estimate is 297,868,385.

    So, that's a 19.7% population growth since 1980. And 5.8% population growth in just the last 5 years.

    So, as long as the US population continues to grow, our economy had better continue to grow at at least the same rate.

    Likewise, when considering the total growth in emissions from the US in the past 25 years, you need to consider the population growth as well.

    Since the US birth rate is fairly low, I would imagine that most of the population growth is due to immigration.
     
  10. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Hmmm. What is 'profit' really, if it costs us the earth?
     
  11. Wynder

    Wynder New Member

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    The stuff I use with which to buy my 2006 Classic Silver Prius, package #6. :)
     
  12. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    What some people don't get is that Bush's cronies (including the House of Saud) are oil men, and they make more money when the rest of us burn more oil, not less. They also expect (rightly or wrongly, I won't speculate) that the oil bubble won't burst until after they're dead. Alternative energy and efficiency are good for the country, but bad for the oil barons. The foxes eat the chickens, they don't protect them from being eaten. W may be a moron, but the people behind him know exactly what they're doing when they sabotage any attempt to move the country away from oil.
     
  13. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I wrote two new classes for my company's Education Services - one for internal engineers and one for external customers. These courses teach how to increase efficiency of building automation systems and building eqipment. Oh wow how my eyes were widened and how much I learned. It's amazing.

    For example, using a power curve which is expressed in near-cubed ratios, if you reduce a motor or fan's performance speed by 20% you reduce its power consumption by 50%. See attachment. There are multiple strategies available to large buildings that will reduce a company's energy concumption, , improve their EnergyStar, ASHRAE, and ISO14001 standings, and reduce their cost of energy which directly increases their profits.

    The problem is that energy consumption strategies - even those proven to pay for themselves in the short-term and provide pure cost savings in the long-run - are often overlooked.

    This book represents itself as the comprehensive authority on energy efficiency. I know I learned alot from it and I didn't even read all of it.
    The Energy Efficiency Manual

    Energy Star provides tools to help coprorations and their facility managers evaluate energy saving strategies based on equipment purchase, maintanence, and cost savings.Energy Star Savings Calculating Tools

    Shameless self promotion. Here's what I do: SIEMENS Building Automation :: Energy Services