Unattended while running

Interesting thought and should be easy to test with a friend. :idea: My thought, without going out and doing it which I will sometime during the day today, is that it would not allow the other person to put the car in gear. It will be interesting to see what message is provided if that does happen. If you don't get to try it or someone else who already has the answer responds to your post, I'll let you know later today what happens.
8)

 

Actually, that was rather dumb of me to suggest you do this with a friend when you can do it yourself. I assume that you already tried it, which I just did, and much to my amazement I was able to go out to the car without the fob on me (left it on my desk at work) and drive away. The only warning I received was NO KEY symbol on the dash - which a thief could care less about. However it is obvious that as soon as the would be thief gets where they are going and turns off the car they will not be able to turn it back on. Tremendous inconvenience for THEM but even more so for YOU. In any case I am VERY surprised that with all the automation in the car that the idea of driving off without the fob under these conditions is not prevented just as I cannot turn the car on without the fob. :?

 

Almost found this out the hard way

2 weeks after getting my new SS/SE silver 2004 Prius I was in Florida at Busch Gardens. As we parked in the lot, I was hurried along by my companion as we had gotten to the park relatively late in the morning.

7 hours later, as we returned to the parking lot that night, I realized while walking up that the headlights were still on! At first I thought, wow I forgot to turn those off, I can't believe how amazing this new car is, it can keep the lights on battery all day! As I got closer I realized with dread that the screen was lit up inside the car too.
I went to open the door and was greeted with no customary unlocking beep.

Shamed, I got inside my unlocked, powered-up, ready-to-be-driven-away 2004 Prius as it had been sitting in an unsecured parking lot for the prior 7 hours.

I don't know how I missed the beeps that morning as I walked away from the powered car. I guess the screams of the rollercoasters overhead drowned it out.

Be careful everyone!! This was an embarrassing wake-up call for me!

 

I smell an owner complaint induced recall in the wind...

This is not an acceptable design oversight. Imagine this, you run into a store and a 9 year old decides to check out the car that is running (cycling on and off) left sitting in the lot. I think both you and arguably Toyota would be held accountable for the result. Sure, you can do it with a "keyed" ignition, except in that situation it would clearly be the operator's fault.

I don't have my #9 option model yet. But what I had anticipated was that the car would only operate as long as the key fob (in the pocket) was within an exceptionally close range of the car. I'd like to hear what more of you think, since it seems surprising that Toyota could have made such a ridiculous oversight.

 

I believe it would be wise to force the the car to remain in "P" if the key is not inside the car.

But, I love the SS/SE system so much and don't have children and won't make my original mistake again (here's hoping), so I for one am not about to complain to Toyota.

I love the car! It is so excellent when you can actually own your 'dream car', and I definitely do.

 

That's really surprising to me that the designers (programmers) missed that. If you leave the car on and walk away with the key, the car should shut down on it's own. By the same tolken if you leave the car on and someone jumps in and starts driving away, when the car is away from the key, it should also shut down.

 

The anti-carjacking aspects of the current system may have been more important.

An untrained thief won't demand the fob be handed over, so the car will eventually stop and stay there. If the fob was required, they would likely kill or injure the driver to get it...

 

mikepaul,

Are you referring to some form of technological safety feature, or simply the fact that they won't think to ask for the key fob. If the later, I am disappointed in Toyota's simple approach to "crime prevention".

Carjackers's M.O. is to threaten an operator by demanding either the keys (if victim is outside), or the driver's seat (if inside). I would much rather have someone ASK me for a key fob than to know my vehicle could be so haphazardly (and dangerously) left in a vulnerable condition.

And besides, if it did sit there and cycle on / off all day, think where your mileage would be? :mrgreen:

 

I don't quite understand how this is Toyota's fault. Having Smart Entry/Start engaged and leaving the car "on" when going into the store is the same thing as leaving the key in the ignition and the engine on in a traditional car.

Even if you felt the need to leave the car on with a kid inside (so that the AC would keep the car cool, or warm, whatever the weather), you should put on the emergency brake and put the car in park. Then lock all the doors (with the button on the inside of the door) and take you keyfob with you. It seems that would be much safer because the car would be climate controlled and perhaps the kid would be content listening to the radio.

I find the current way it's programmed to be acceptable, now that I understand how it works. I think that allowing a carjacker or whatever to get away with the car only to find it undriveable later is preferable to making it undriveable in my presence. It's been stated in another thread, the alternative would be for the car to come to a complete stop when it detected the fob wasn't present, which could be dangerous and caused by an innocuous situation, like the fob battery died.

I don't quite understand why it's possible to leave a car running without the "key" present ... but that's just the way it is.

As owners of these cars we just need to be aware of how it works. It will take some adjusting to, but I don't think there's a 'flaw' in the design.

 

If the car is running, there's no reason to ask. Asking at that point is common?

Anyway, Toyota seems to have made several decisions about keeping the car running no matter what: on electric (slowly) if the gas tank is empty, and if the SS/E fob is out of the car come to mind. Perhaps their lawyers convinced them that disabling the car would open them up to *more* lawsuits, but we'll probably never know...

 

cybele,

You raise some valid points I had not considered. I still would prefer the car to be driveable only when the fob present. I admit, your dead battery scenario would need to be resolved, though that could be handled using some form of advance battery level warning, a secondary battery back up, or a last gulp signal between the fob and the ECU saying, "Keep running (until next shut off), but I need a new battery!"

Granted, none of these would be easy fixes at this point.

Slightly OT, but what happens if your fob gets wet? Does it at least maintain the ability to start the car when placed into the dash?

 

Yes, this almost happened to me last weekend. My husband was driving, but I had the fob in my pocket. He dropped me off and went to park the car. I remembered to give him the fob before he drove off, because I didn't know for sure what would happen if he didn't have it.

But now I know it's not that big of a deal, but certainly the driver should have the fob as a precaution.

 

SORRY FOR THE LENGTH!!

It's evident from all the comments that there are many views to 'right' or 'wrong' with regard to 'having the fob or not after the car is started'. I think my original point of not allowing the car to be put into gear (from park) is the most reasonable answer. The many scenarios under which this condition can occur are all easily resolved by simply retrieving the forgotten fob and continuing on as normal. The example given earlier, which would be a major hassle, of leaving the car on (fob is in my pocket), and I go back in the house and change jackets but forget to transfer the fob, I don't notice the NO KEY symbol on the dashboard (it is in RED but NO audio warning is provided), I drive off and get to where I am going and turn off the car - I am now stuck, similar to locking my key in the car!!

I believe this is simply a design short-site but with potential serious implications if the car is stolen but legally no different from leaving your key in a running car so a thief can drive off with it. Toyota had to consider the problem because they do recognize the condition and present the red NO KEY icon but they stopped there in terms of additional preventive measures. The point is that Toyota could have taken the extra step of a fool-proof solution via the automated capabilities of the car to prevent anything unfortunate from happening. I plan on posting a complaint/concern with Toyota and we'll see where it leads to.

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One test would be to pull the battery out of the spare fob, and see what it can do...

 

I give up! What is 'fob'!

Sorry, I'm sure it's rediculously simple!!

BTW Awesome board!

04 Seaside Pearl pkg 1

 

Re: I give up! What is 'fob'!

 

Great idea, but I think I'll need the car first...

Note: My MB's keyed fob (electronic signature to engage) has worked for years after a lap in the kiddie pool. However, it did lose the ability to pushbutton set/disarm the alarm. Being only the occassional driver, I never bothered to pay $150 to get a new one.

rohlrogge,

While everyone has added important considerations, I do agree with your simple approach. Perhaps as a compromise, the car can have two fob sensing system (perhaps even rolled into one).

System one would detect the approaching owner and allow access.

System two will only allow activation of the car, or the movement of the car from park if it is already running (per cybele's analogy), under the strict condition that the fob is located within the car's interior.

Clearly, once activated (allowed out of park), there would have to be some kind of safety grace period if the: 1.) battery dies; 2.) fob gets dropped into a Big Gulp; or, 3.) some ornery kid tosses it out the window. The "safety" could be as simple as what is currently allowed - drive it until you switch it off.

Hypothetically, would this set up address everyone's concerns and convenience requirements?