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Unexpected Battery Shutdown

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by mostl harmless, May 30, 2005.

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  1. mostl harmless

    mostl harmless New Member

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    New to this site and posted this to Prius 2G @ Yahoo about a week ago but thought I'd put it over here also along with my one response and dealer action since this forum is a bit more maintenance/problem focused...

    5/22/05

    :( Here's what happened. Driving along on a beautiful Sunday afternoon yesterday at about 55. I feel a shudder and I've got the red triangle (MFD showed problem with hybrid system), yellow brake warning (no regen) and the general yellow check engine. The engine kicks up to what sounds like higher revs and the energy display shows nothing flowing from the battery to the wheels. Drive it off the road to a park and ride and pull in without thinking - great I won't be able to back out without the battery driving the wheels. To my surprise the hybrid system works fine in reverse. The ICE starts up immediately when the car is powered on and the battery seems to give nothing to the wheels in drive.

    The service manager said they got U0111(208-531) out for codes.

    One Response:

    Very interesting!!!!

    U0111 means that the HV ECU lost communication with the battery ECU. Probable causes include failure of the CAN communications system or failure of the battery ECU.

    When this happens the HV ECU no longer has any knowledge of the battery SOC, and will therefore only use it if it absolutely has to (i.e. to start the engine and to reverse). The ECU goes into a special no-battery limited drive mode that is described extensively in the Toyota hybrid patents.

    The behaviour is exactly as you describe it, i.e. the engine never shuts off in Ready, and since there is no place to store regenerated energy, it spins the engine, using essentialy the B shift position.

    Previously I've been thinking about ways to trigger this mode in my own car to confirm the patent description, but you have experienced it "for real"! How exciting!

    J in MN.

    From Dealer:
    Disconnect battery. Check connectors on HVELU. Check voltage on connector A as outlined in repair manual (05-857 thru 860). Remove HV battery cover. Check battery ECU connectors. Reconnect battery. Problem disappeared. Road tested for 22 miles.

    That was about 300 miles ago and my baby is running fine again.

    Anyone else have this experience? Seems a bit like the XMAS tree but the engine stayed running. I've had the firmware updated on 9/28/04 when I had a check engine at 150 miles with P0136.
     
    #1 mostl harmless, May 30, 2005
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    So did you have it checked? I'm not clear on that. Did someone fix it?

    If not I'd definately have those connections checked, but maybe all is well after a reboot. Maybe we'll see a TSB on this if there are more reports.
     
    #2 efusco, May 30, 2005
  3. tag

    tag Senior Member

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    I'm not clear on the situation either, except it appears that the car was, in fact, checked by the dealer (from the statements, "The service manager said they got U0111(208-531) out for codes" and "Road tested for 22 miles"). But it appears nothing was replaced despite the fact that the code ostensibly indicates some component might have failed (i.e. "Probable causes include failure of the CAN communications system or failure of the battery ECU").

    ????

    I've experienced something similar.....TOD and CEL lit up without warning but the car continued to operate normally. I was able to clear the anomaly by cycling the power a few times and the service tech at the dealership told me not to worry about it. I was still somewhat concerned so I brought the car in early for an oil change and mentioned the incident. The dealer inspected the car but reported that they didn't get any codes and everything was functioning properly.
     
    #3 tag, May 30, 2005
  4. mostl harmless

    mostl harmless New Member

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    Yes, it was checked. Apparently nothing was actually replaced. Based on the codes, and the one enthusiastic response I received, it may have just been a cabling problem which was cleared when they disconnected/checked battery/reconnected. Then again, the planets may have all been in alignment to confuse the computers (as we used to say - "oh, jump not carry" 8) ).

    I'll keep you up to date if the problem rears it's head again.

    thanks,
    jim
     
    #4 mostl harmless, May 30, 2005
  5. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    I have heard of something similar a long time ago. I think there was a 12V low/bad DTC stored in the battery ECU.
     
    #5 DanMan32, May 31, 2005
  6. mostl harmless

    mostl harmless New Member

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    DTC, haven't heard that abbreviation before... what's that?
    still running fine,
    jim
     
    #6 mostl harmless, May 31, 2005
  7. tag

    tag Senior Member

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    DTC - Diagnostic Trouble Code
     
    #7 tag, May 31, 2005
  8. mostl harmless

    mostl harmless New Member

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    well, it happened again! :( this time it happened when we came out of Home Depot - right when we started. MIL (hybrid system), check engine, yellow brake (regen problem). drove it home about 2 miles - hardly any acceleration.

    after sitting a few minutes this time however, started and regen warning light went out. powered down. after another brief wait all lights were out and car drove normally.

    it's at the dealer now. will see what they find tomorrow.
    jim
     
    #8 mostl harmless, Jun 5, 2005
  9. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    Could it be a problem with the Gateway ECU? oops :oops: they are both on the CAN comes from shooting from the hip.
     
    #9 hdrygas, Jun 5, 2005
  10. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I fear we are going to see a lot more software-related issues on new networked cars.

    It reminds me of some of the baffling problems I face in industrial process control. Everything new is networked (ControlNet, DeviceNet, AS-I Bus, ProfiBus, HART, Foundation FieldBus, etc) and usually 2-10 devices are daisy-chained together.

    All you need is for a maintenance tech to snag a cable, and the entire segment will go dead unless the break happened upstream of the Backup LAS (Link Active Scheduler).

    In some cases while on call, I've had to travel 4-6 hours to a remote plant site only to replace a 10 ft chunk of cable.
     
    #10 jayman, Jun 5, 2005
  11. rick57

    rick57 Member

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    Hmm? :roll: This is a new one on me. I have never had these codes come up before. And there are no TSBs out on it either.Keep us informed, as I will be checking up on this thread. Sometimes networking with others helps everyone, :)
     
    #11 rick57, Jun 5, 2005
  12. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    bookmarking this link
     
    #12 DaveinOlyWA, Jun 5, 2005
  13. angel fire

    angel fire New Member

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    Dealer said they got U0111 (208, 531) out again - same as the first time. After some calls to the west coast they're going to replace the HV ECU. A previous poster had said they thought it might be cabling or the Battery ECU - we'll see. I'd think they probably checked the cabling, seems like it would be cheaper for them if that were the problem. Tried to talk with the Prius tech but by the time I got there he'd left for the day.

    Problem is the part is on national backorder so with any luck he says there may be one somewhere out west or else it could be a while. So now I'm now driving a robins egg blue Camry loaner. I'd forgotten how nasty shift points can be in those dino cars.

    I'll keep everyone posted.

    jim
     
    #13 angel fire, Jun 7, 2005
  14. mostl harmless

    mostl harmless New Member

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    sorry for any confusion - that last "angel fire" post was me too. long story but was logged on differently @ work. :)
    jim
     
    #14 mostl harmless, Jun 7, 2005
  15. mostl harmless

    mostl harmless New Member

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    :( The saga continues. The dealer replaced the HV ECU. Got it back yesterday. Drove it home and all was well. Drove it about 30 miles to do some work at church and again no problems. Come out and there are the same lights again (MIL(hybrid), regen warning and check engine) and no help at all from MG2. Called the dealer and spoke to the Prius Tech and he said it should be OK to drive in. That's what I thought since it seems to be a CAN problem but wanted his confirmation.

    Driving along on back roads to the dealer, no acceleration for getting on highway without MG2. Pulled over to check our directions and upon restart the regen brake warning was off (MIL(hybrid system) and check engine still on) and juice was flowing from the battery. Seemed good, started out and within about 1/10 mile MIL & check engine are back on and no help from MG2.

    Battery got down to one bar so I pulled into a cemetary - seemed appropriate - ready to call Roadside Assistance for a tow since I didn't want to drain the battery with no regen or charging. Restarted after a minute and regen warning went off, restarted after another minute and all lights were off. Proceeded this way for about 10 miles and then all three came back on.

    Just dropped it off a few hours ago. This will be the dealer's third chance. I'm thinking, maybe one more and we need to bring up the lemon law? I believe in my heart of hearts though that Toyota will make this right.

    i'll keep you posted,
    jim
     
    #15 mostl harmless, Jun 11, 2005
  16. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Jim:

    Three strikes and it's out. Lemon Law it already.

    Jay
     
    #16 jayman, Jun 11, 2005
  17. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    It's sad to say, but you migt be talking with Toyota to replace that car.

    Nearly 400,000 Prii on the roads internationally and it's inevitable that some will experience problems. Toyota should take that car back and give you a new duplicate (color and package).
     
    #17 TonyPSchaefer, Jun 11, 2005
  18. rick57

    rick57 Member

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    I would think at this time an FTS ( Field Technical Specialist ) from the regional office or someone higher will be in to help your tech with this problem. Toyota really wants to solve all problems, especially with the hybrids. The tech should have gotten a case started when he called for help last time. That is what I do when a vehicle has been in a second time. Don't want to go to that dreaded Lemon Law, :cry: . Sorry I can't be of any help, Haven't had that problem here.
     
    #18 rick57, Jun 14, 2005
  19. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    knowing Toyota's commitment to excellence, they may WANT to buy the car to take it apart and determine what the real cause is. Toyota seems to be a company that enjoys a challenge
     
    #19 DaveinOlyWA, Jun 14, 2005
  20. mostl harmless

    mostl harmless New Member

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    Here's where we are... Stopped at the dealer yesterday to get my loaner and pick up some stuff (a CD plus owners manual and all service information to date to start Lemon proceedings should it come to that, MD gives the manufacturer 4 tries and it has to be within 15 months or 15K, thankfully it is). Talked to the tech. Sounds like he has been consulting extensively with Toyota folks in California. He also said he tried to talk to the Battery ECU and couldn't. So, they're going to replace the Battery ECU and I guess if that fails, wiring.

    Just wondering though, if you can't talk to the Battery ECU what updates the State of Charge display? I would have thought that came from the Battery ECU or is it displayed from some generally available sensor? I could see the SOC going down while I have the AC on even while the problem was there and MG2 wasn't pitching in.

    One more piece of info. It was involved in a relatively minor accident on the driver's side (woman slide out of her lane and into me on a wet road) about 5000 miles, and 4 months before I had the problem (at 10,400). Both driver's doors/windows/mirror were replaced. Absolutely no problems before the 1st occurance of the U0111. Does anyone know where the Battery ECU is?

    That's where we stand. I'll keep you posted.

    jim
     
    #20 mostl harmless, Jun 14, 2005
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