URGENT: warped dash problem on '04 ('05?)

This is a follow-up to the "Watch out for warping dash" thread posted by priusinterested. I've spoken with him (I have the problem, too) and want to post a thread with a more urgent-sounding topic name to get input from anyone who knows they've had the problem, and possibly even some who have it in its early stages but don't know it.

Although I have a digital camera, I haven't learned how to post pics to PC. Priusinterested will early next week when he gets his car back from the dealer.

(If someone wants to PM me with simple instructions on how to post a pic, I'll try.)

Important: this problem so far has become apparent only in a few '04s. It may or may not also occur in '05s, or even '06s. That's one reason for this thread.

Problem: the lower edge of the black plastic dash, just above the upper glove box, warps upward. Eventually the raised part interferes with opening the upper glove box lid.

When the problem becomes visually detectable, you notice a slightly irregular gap between the bottom edge of the dash and the top of the glove box. The highest-raised portion of the warpage on mine is directly below where Toyota has stamped "SRS airbag" into the plastic. Also, when you run a finger along the edge of the dash, from left to right starting at the base of the MFD, you can feel the plastic rise as it approaches the glove box.

The passenger airbag is anchored just under the dash at this point. Therefore, if there is a wire to the airbag (anyone know?) that carries low but continuous voltage, the warping could be caused by that.

If not, it's probably sun-caused. But why at this exact spot on at least two cars? Possibly because the plastic is thinner at this location than in the rest of the dash. I remember reading a couple of posts here recently about the plastic being so thin here that they could almost "see through" it under certain conditions.

It's also possible that somehow clips that anchor the dash down at this location have slipped---but I doubt it. It could also be that somewhat experimental bio-plastic material that Toyota has said it's using (I think) could be prone to warpage---but it would still need a "trigger".

Priusinterested and I both live in N CA, where our cars get sun heat probably above average (higher where I live, closer to Sacramento). A third car we know of
that's had the problem is in AZ.

So far a dealer has refused to fix priusinterested's (estimated to cost $850) under extended warranty, and he's contacting Toyota early next week. I have an appt. for mine Tues. morning.

What's most bothersome to me about it is that it's likely a slow-developing problem, exposing owners to an expensive repair after their basic warranty has expired. Both of our cars are about 2-1/2 years old; both have over 36K mi.
That's why it's important to collect data to present to Toyota, if necessary.

So the problem may develop more quickly, if not exclusively, in hotter climates. We don't know yet. We also don't know if somehow Toyota caught and corrected it before they made the '05. If not, it may simply be too soon for it to have appeared on '05s.

Please look at your '04-'05 and post if you see the problem (whether or not your glove-box lid binds).

 

Thanks, galaxee. I did have a recall problem fixed last year, but don't remember what it was (I'll check my paperwork). That sounds like a plausible explanation.
Will check back.

Edited to add info:

My invoice from that occasion says they did 50 P, the ECM reprogramming (I still have the notice Toyota sent). But it also says they did another one, 40 L. Was that the fuel filler (it doesn't explain)?

 

Nope, that day was my only TSB work. Dark here now; will look for screws in the morning.

BTW, I can push down on the upraised ("warped") part of the dash, but it returns (springy).

 

UPDATE: Saturday

It appears to be strictly a problem with the glove box, NOT a dash warpage problem.

I got the glove box out with little trouble. The two screws holding down the dash are intact. But the one farthest to the right is still only about 2" to the left of where "SRS AIRBAG" is stamped into the dash. This means there is 5" to the right of that screw where nothing anchors the dash---and this is precisely where the "warpage" looked worst.

INSTEAD of warpage, here's how it appears to me.

1. On each side of the glovebox is a coiled round spring, mostly covered by a round black plastic housing. One end of each spring is secured inside the housing(s)---you can't see inside the housings.

2. But the other end of each spring protrudes out of the housing(s). They are SUPPOSED to be anchored in notches on the back of the glovebox. But the plastic has broken next to BOTH notches so that the notches won't hold those springs. The can be slid in and out of the notches with your finger, but not seated. It's a classic example of the integrity of the whole being compromised by the weakest link.

3. When the right-hand spring, unanchored because of the broken notch, sprang upward, it put surprisingly strong pressure on the underside of the dash, actually lifting it a bit so that it appears warped. This is in the middle of that 5" stretch where there are no dash-anchoring screws. After removing the glovebox, you can achieve the same effect by pushing upward at that point with your finger. But even with the glovebox removed, although the dash material goes back downward of its own accord, it still bulges upward slightly---from the prolonged pressure. Whether it will totally return to its original position is too soon to say.

So: in both priusinterested's and my original descriptions, in which we said the "warpage" appeared first, then the glovebox lid stopped working, we were apparently wrong. The spring would have had to have broken free first, disabling the lid partially, then the dash would have started bulging upward.

I think it's safe to say "case closed" on this one. I've left things disassembled for now in case galaxee or anyone else reads this and has a question.

What I don't understand is priusinterested's dealer's apparent mis-diagnosis. It is not a dash problem. It is clearly poor engineering of the glovebox, specifically the pieces of plastic adjacent to those notches being too weak to withstand the pressure of the springs.

What causes it to happen? do not know. I don't see any way you can "abuse" the glovebox---by opening it "too fast", slamming it shut, whatever. All I can attribute it to is "plastic fatigue" from all that constant pressure exerted by the springs.

This also tells me, intuitively, since it has nothing to do with heat, that Toyota has probably already replaced many gloveboxes---perhaps hundreds. That plastic will break in any climate. I suppose it is possible that those plastic parts, being permanently only half an inch below the surface of the dash, could weaken under intense and recurring hot sun. A plastics expert might know.

Whether they redesigned the notches for the '05s is another matter. I'd love to pop one out and look. But I don't have access to an '05. If they didn't, the problem can be expected to affect some of those too, sooner or later. Maybe '06s, too.

I'll stop here for now. Priusinterested, please PM me or post here to let me know you've seen this---and understand it.

If my description has confused anyone (e.g., galaxee/DH :wub, let me know.

 

The glove box is not fixable. Really too bad---it's a piece of engineering unto itself, with gears to allow the lid to seem to rise "pneumatically", lots of small parts.

Yes, I just popped the two little round cutouts in the rear of the glove box. The way I accomplished that was to gently jam a small pocket knife blade into the cutout seam and make a quick, sharp prying motion. Took about three attempts, and it did pop out. The right-hand cutout is harder to get at (if you're right-handed) than the left.

After you remove the two screws behind the cutouts, try to pry gently under the bottom of the glove box, at the same time pulling toward yourself, to get it to start to come out---it fits very tightly. No, you don't have to remove the vent housing. But after the glove box is halfway out, you will have to pop out a small cluster of wires from a plastic receptacle in the rear of the box to get it all the way out. You'll see how to do that.

Good luck.

 

For anyone else who reads this:

If those spring retainer notches were not redesigned for '05-'06, I would expect many more such failures. And I'd guess the majority of them would come after 36K mi.

Galaxee, if you're still reading this (if not, I'll PM), your Prius is an '05, right? Any chance DH could remove your glove box and look at the spring retaining notches or whatever modification they might have made? I'm thinking only a small metal piece, perhaps slid into a slot---or possibly a well-placed, short screw, might be strong enough to withstand that constant pressure.

Edit to add:

Thanks for pics, priusinterested. Tough to get a close-up of that small (1/2") broken notch. But the dash looks identical to mine. People should keep an eye out for that irregularity in their dashes. It won't get worse and worse until the dash breaks---it'll just remain slightly raised in exactly that spot.