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US / Europe light cluster differences

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by KMO, Mar 1, 2005.

  1. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

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    A photo from tha LA-OC meetup thread just made me sit up and have a closer look. I'm always anal enough to be intrigued by the subtle differences between Priuses, and this picture showed something I hadn't seen before.

    In the US, as I understand it, side reflectors (and lights I think) are a legal requirement, and they're often just stuck on the side. I hadn't realised that the Prius didn't seem to have any. But this picture shows that it does in the US - they've just been sneakily added to the light clusters.

    I assume the corner-mounted tail light suffices as a side marker light. Its larger slot in the cluster (because of the lack of rear fog light) may make it more visible from the side.

    (PS can I have your weather?) :roll:
     
  2. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

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    Now, does anyone have a good photo of what's going on in the US front light cluster? Inspection of photos shows something orange going on. Is there an orange side reflector there? What about the sidelight - is it orange or white from the side?

    Here are some photos of the EU lights. The sidelight is at the topmost outer corner and is white. The indicator is an orange bulb at the inside top.
     
  3. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    I admit I haven't looked that closely. I'm not sure about the side light requirement. They exist on some cars but certainly not all. Now I'll have to start looking. :) My Odyssey had lenses that wrap around the fender as does the Prius. My wife's '97 Subaru does as well. Perhaps that is meeting a requirement of which I was not aware. :)

    Also, I'm not sure you want the So. Cal weather of late. They are on their way to record rainfall.

    LOS ANGELES, Feb. 22, 2005

    Living The Stormy Life
    Forecasters said another strong system expected early Wednesday could bring severe winds and drop an additional inch or more of rain on Southern California.

    The wild weather came from a series of storms that began battering the state on Thursday, dumping 8.15 inches of rain on downtown Los Angeles.

    A total of 33.95 inches of rain had fallen in the city since July 1, when California begins its yearly rainfall measurements. The record, 38.18 inches, was set in 1883-1884.


    Of course it is STILL probably a fraction of what you get annually in Cambridge. The problem is they are getting it all at once.
     
  4. victor

    victor New Member

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    Bah, We have about 2 foot of snow and -23 C at the moment. 1st day of spring my backside!

    :x
     
  5. petteri

    petteri New Member

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    I have personal experiance with this. I moved to Europe in 1996 and brought a Honda Civic VX with me. The authorities in France needed me to replace the front headlights (the US spec ones have a different beam pattern and these lights also had the integrated reflectors) and the rear lights. The new tail lights included a rear fog light. The EU regulations require a rear fog light. They also forbid the use of side reflectors. The Germans also require a turn signal indicator on the front fenders or side mirrors. They are not reqired in the rest of Europe as far as I know, but they are included in all EU cars due to the large size of the German market. Some here in the US have swaped out their US spec headlights for the Euro versions for the "better" beam pattern.
     
  6. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

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    I think things may have changed a little since 1996. Side indicator repeaters are now required in the whole EU, as far as I can tell. Pretty much ever car since about 1986 has had them in the UK.

    Side reflectors or marker lights are permitted, but they have to be orange, except ones incorporated into the tail-light assembly which can be red.

    The US requires either side reflectors or lights - orange at the front, red at the rear.

    The most important fix bringing a car out of the US is the headlights. US headlights are generally very poor - the regulatory standards are not good, and even prohibit the better ECE headlamps. So someone importing a car to the US would be legally compelled to downgrade.
     
  7. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    US headlight standards have been modernized in the last few years. The headlight pattern of my Prius with HID, asymmetrical with a sharp cutoff, is very similar to what I experienced while driving in Europe and to the flush European headlights I had (illegally) installed on my 1985 Audi 5000S Turbo (Audi 100 in Europe in those days).
     
  8. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    Victor, I am not a fan of Winter either. . . so if you fine folks at the German Aerospace Center have figured out how to make the Spring Equinox arrive 20 day early, PLEeeeeezzzzeeee let me know how so I can bring Springtime here to California too.

    Curious: How do you prevent Sun Clocks from showing any warping around Germany?
    P.S. Let’s keep this quiet. Wouldn’t want to alarm the Global Warming theorists. :p

    [Broken External Image]:http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/LivingEarth/Images/living_earth.jpg
     
  9. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    Many cars have orange turn signals in the rear.
    I don't think side markers are required, though many cars have them. Pedestrians are often annoyed with cars that don't have side markers.

    Many cars have clear reflectors/plastic covers, with the bulb being orange, which would yield an orange light.
     
  10. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

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    I was talking about side marker lights, not indicators. They have to be red at the rear in the US.

    As I said, the US requires either side marker reflectors or side marker lights.

    As for indicators (turn signals in US speak?), they have to be orange at front, rear and side in the whole world except North America. Those US-style red indicators are just bonkers. Do the US regulators have some sort of death wish? Maybe they need to keep the accident figures up high to justify their budgets :)

    I'm still interested in seeing a good picture of the US front light assembly. I think some sort of orange side reflector must have been placed there and I want to see how they've done it, and how it affects the front position light.
     
  11. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    You are correct, US law was changed to require side marker reflectors or lights effective with the 1968 model year.

    I tried to post a photo from the US Toyota website, which shows an orange reflector on the side of the front light assembly, but I was not successful.

    You can view it here:

    http://www.toyota.com/toyotaConfigApp/imag...s=1066346420000
     
  12. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

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    That photo's the best I've managed to find, but I don't quite understand what I'm looking at there. Is it an orange reflector covering part of the white front position lamp? Or is the whole front position lamp orange with integral reflector? Or have they moved the front position lamp?

    If you look at my photos, the space that looks orange on your link is my white front position lamp.
     
  13. bentdvr

    bentdvr New Member

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    Here are the lights from my car.
     
  14. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Victor:

    Now you know what I had to put up with in Winnipeg most of the winter. Fun, is it not??
     
  15. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I certainly wish that was a law here too. It would make lane changes on the highway much safer. Also would make stationary lane changes at an intersection much safer.

    I guess Toyota figured the market for the Prius was predominantly North America so didn't bother to keep the fender signal repeater lamps for us.

    Oddly enough, the Canadian market Toyota Echo Hatchback (Toyota Yaris in the UK) does have the fender repeater lamps.

    http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WW...11?index%2ehtml
     
  16. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    The orange reflector on the side is just that, a reflector which illuminates when light is shined onto it from the side.

    The parking light bulb (front position light?) is in the center of the light assembly and it is orange as well.

    The photos posted by bentdvr show the orange side reflector, but the orange bulb is not quite as prominently visible.
     
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Well as far as I know, you have to have reflectors as the side if your headlights/taillights aren't visible from the side. In other words, your car must be visible from the side regardless of what method you use (side lights, reflectors or just wrap the headlight/taillight around)
     
  18. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

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    Thanks for the pics, bentdvr. OK, so if I understand correctly, the layouts are:

    Outside back corner of assembly:
    ECE: White front position lamp.
    US: Amber front side reflector. US requires an amber light or reflector near the front to be permanently visible from the side.

    Centre of top lens:
    Both versions: Amber direction-indicator lamp

    Inside bottom corner of top lens:
    ECE: Nothing
    US: Amber parking lamp

    So in the US, they've moved the sidelight/parking light/position lamp into the direction-indicator housing to make room for the side reflector.

    Terminology on lighting is often confused. The ECE regulations define "position lamps" and "parking lamps". Position lamps are compulsory, parking lamps are optional. The front position lamps are white (sometimes called sidelights), the rear are red (usually called the taillights). They have to be on before you can turn on headlamps or foglamps, and have to be visible 45 degrees inwards to 80 degrees outwards. On the Prius, they're activated by the first stop on the headlamp control.

    Parking lamps are usually white and red, front and rear. But they can be amber if sharing a lens with the direction-indicators. They come on on one side of the vehicle only. Usually they're controlled by the direction-indicator stalk when the car is switched off. The function of parking lamps can be fulfilled by turning on the position lamps on one side. The Prius doesn't have these.

    I don't know what the correct terminology for the US Prius's amber front lamps would be. They don't meet the ECE requirements, but the US DOT must have some official name for them. Informally at least, you seem to call them parking lights, even though they're on when you're driving.

    Interestingly, the use of ECE parking lamps appears to be illegal in the UK. At least, you're required to turn on all your position lamps when parked on an unlit road at night - parking lamps on one side aren't sufficient. Further, I don't think you're allowed to use amber parking lamps.
     
  19. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(victor\";p=\"68266)</div>
    Spring doesn't officially start until around March 20th, be patient. Unofficially, here in VT, maybe April 20th :)
     
  20. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    No, there is a SINGLE orange bulb centered in the top front assembly. It would be VERY difficult to take a clear picture of it with the lens on. It serves as the turn indicator, parking and position lamps. bentdvr's picture of the amber front side reflector is very good. I planned (but forgot) to see if the turn indicator shines through it as well or if it is opaque (as it appears).

    I think, typically, parking lamps and turn indicators share the same lens, if not the same bulb, in the U.S.. There is one on each of the 4 corners of the car and are also 'position' lamps I guess as they WILL be on if your headlights are on, they are the first position on the light switch.

    I personally prefer amber indicators as they are more obvious than red ones that share the (red) position and brake light lens.