US is NOT energy inefficient

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 9 2006, 10:36 AM) [snapback]252183[/snapback]</div>

Europeans probably drive less, but their average consumption (of oil) per unit distance is probably considerably lower. They tend to drive much more fuel efficient vehicles. They probably also rely on freight trains versus tractor trailers for a lot of their transportation. By your calcs the Germans are 23% more efficient and the Brits are 36% more efficient. That's pretty substantial.

Since our GDP is bigger, we consume/pollute much more than SOME of those contries. Also, since so much of our manufacturing has gone overseas I wonder how that impacts your numbers. For example, how much plastic is still made here in the US. We've probably exported a lot of our pollution elsewhere would be my guess.

Canada's pollution has skyrocketed as they've rachetted up their oil sand/oil production. We consume a lot of that oil. It does point out that people are people and that if they can make a tonne of money with filthy, nasty resources they won't hesitate to do it. Americans are definitely NOT unique in that respect. We're just a convienent target. Not that we don't deserve some criticism, we do, but a lot of those folks throwing stones need to take a good look in the mirror.

 

And just as our industry is some of the most efficient in the world, we can do even better on our transportation efficiency. As long as we have the ability to do better, we should follow through. Encourage friends and family members to trade in SUVs for Prius!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 9 2006, 11:36 AM) [snapback]252183[/snapback]</div>

Why does that justify not adopting technology improvements?

In other words, full hybrids are proving themselves worthy. So resisting the change, which will inevitably bring improvements as a result, simply does not make any sense.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 9 2006, 12:36 PM) [snapback]252183[/snapback]</div>

<sniff, sniff> you aren't a troll by any chance, are you?

 

As Tripp alluded to, I doubt the GDP is much use in answering this question because 1, service industries are relatively low energy users and account recent US GDP increases, and 2, manufacturing that is outsourced is energy 'free' in this calc.

Just another number to throw in the propaganda wastebasket. I am surprised though, that the WSJ published this drivel. Are they competing with Faux News nowadays ?

 

have to go with the crowd on this one. most manufacturing industries realize that increasing energy costs will force them to adopt more efficient processes or they will simply be unable to compete.

your post attempts to justify our wasteful ways and that simply wont fly no matter what "logic" you are using. the fact remains, we are a small fraction of the world's population using a HUGE slice of the energy pie. your father would have slapped you at the dinner table had you tried to take a piece that big and we as americans should be too. it is very very long overdue.

 

The Rocky Mountain Institute (www.rmi.org) has researched, discussed and published findings on energy efficiency in detail. See: Ernst von Weizacker, Amory B. Lovins, L. Hunter Lovins (1998), Factor Four: Doubling Wealth - Halving Resource Use: A Report to the Club of Rome Amazon.com: $31. You want to cut your costs by one-half? Double your efficiency.

For 100+ years we have substituted oil and water for knowledge. We can cut our costs, at every scale, by 66% by applying our knowledge, and thereby increase net profit.

Is the US wasteful? Without question. Is there a lot of room for greatly increased efficiency? A resounding yes! We need to stop whining, step up and be proactive by thinking and acting long-term.

 

uh, dude, you started this thread. You cited a WSJ article which is dubious in its comparisons of energy use. Furthermore, depending on how much you drive and how gas hungry your vehicle is (what are you driving on long interstate trips?) you may NOT be cleaner than others here.

How much of your energy use is offset by your PV array? If it's not 100% then what's energy mix like in your area and how many kWh are you getting from the grid?

Every kWh of coal emits 2.095 lbs of CO2. Every gallon of gasoline emits 19 lbs of CO2. That's an order of magnitude difference in emissions.

So how many miles do you drive a year and how many gallons do you burn in the process?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 10 2006, 12:17 PM) [snapback]252816[/snapback]</div>

Sounds like you're the one who's on a high horse. And a gas guzzling horse at that. The only reason you have a Prius is to feed your "Oh look at me, look at me" fetish. There's a technical term for people who are fond of exclaiming "I can do what I want when I want". They're called gluttons. Ah yes, there's the ignore button...



photo by David Coates of the Detroit News

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 10 2006, 09:17 AM) [snapback]252816[/snapback]</div>

Resource consumption as relative to GDP seems like a self-justifying correlation. Kind of like saying we need to keep big SUVs to keep our economy going and jobs in America. Resource consumption on a per capita basis seems a more telling statistic.

PS: Kudos for your solar contributions, what region are you in?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 10 2006, 09:17 AM) [snapback]252816[/snapback]</div>

if you choose to make this a personal attack upon yourself, please do so. you will oh course, keep in mind that i am not a participant

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 10 2006, 02:47 PM) [snapback]252967[/snapback]</div>

Your views are those of the vast majority of americans, I'm sorry to say.

As for following the money on a personal level, that is IMO actually quite a reasonable idea, IF prices represented actual costs. But as I am sure (?) you are aware, nothing is further from the truth. So given that fossil fuel consumption is subsidized through a corrupt and mismanged government, can or should an individual go along for the ride, for personal gain ?

I am also curious how you concluded that your used $16K Prius saved you money over a used $5K Toyota Echo ?

Equating increased personal fossil fuel consumption with citizen value to the earth might be arguable on an average basis, if one were to think that burning fossil fuel is a good thing. Do you think that ?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ May 10 2006, 02:47 PM) [snapback]252967[/snapback]</div>

I agree that, unfortunately, your views are the same as many of the ostriches in this country. It's those same people that believe global warming is a myth, that the onset of asthma/allergies/other respiratory issues are just some strange occurence with no root cause, that bad hurricane seasons are "just a cycle," and that it's all about "me" rather than about "us."

It's also those same people that, when desertification/crazy weather patterns/loss of land due to polar ice cap melting/exponential rises in temperatures over the next 50 years happens, will say "Well, why didn't anyone tell us not to drive our SUVs?" You know, those types that smoke three packs of cigarettes a day for 30 years, then have NO IDEA how they could've possibly gotten emphysema/lung cancer. I mean, just because it was printed on the package, how could they possibly have been expected to pay attention?

And, btw, I don't really consider myself a tree hugger. What I do consider myself is an EXCEPTIONAL MOTHER who would really like to leave my 2-year-old son the legacy of a healthy planet, in addition to a small-but-worked-hard-for inheritance. So yeah, it pisses me off when I get blown off the road by someone getting 7 mpg. Call me crazy, but they're infringing on my legacy. And messing with my boy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ May 10 2006, 08:25 PM) [snapback]253259[/snapback]</div>

These can largely be summed up in one word... diet. I've recently been diagnosed with Rhuematoid Arthritis and have been doing some research. Most of our health problems have our terrible diet as the root cause. Not that pollution doesn't play a significant role, but I think the overriding cause is diet.

BTW, I hear you about the kids. I've got two young daughters and I feel the same way you do.

The good news in all of this is that once solar becomes cost competetive with traditionally generated electricity then everyone who only cares about money will be all over it. That's a lot of people. So all is not lost.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ May 10 2006, 06:25 PM) [snapback]253259[/snapback]</div>

Quodos to you livelychick for wanting to leave your kids something more than I think most people are thinking about. You shouldn't be exceptional, you should be average - more parents should want the same thing. Unfortuntely, in todays world your desires are more the exception.

As for the justification of our gas usage as related to GDP, it's BS. Plain and simple. We also spend some of the most amount of money on obesity related health care costs. I'm sure we can justify it by comparing that to GDP too, but it doesn't stop the fact that every man, woman and child in the US contributed $120 last year towards some fat nice person's health care costs. And need I remind anyone that we are supposed to be the leader in technology?? We should be able to do it better and more efficiently than anyone else. Instead, we are just on par (if you buy into the comparison with GDP)?

The fact is global warming is real - dispite the Bush administrations attempts at debunking it, any serious scientist believes it and believes it's getting worse. The other fact is fuel prices are skyrocketting because demand outstrips supply. What is the US supposed to do? The answer clearly is NOT make more supply by drilling in the arctic. That's as good as giving heroin addicts and extra vial of heroin rather than get them into rehab. While we are at it, let's buy alcoholics thier favorite liquour so that they don't have to steal it from a convenience store.

The US needs to have a real energy policy and quick. Tax breaks for buying SUV's have to stop. I think such a plan needs to have the following:
1. Extend the hybrid tax credit indefinitely, with no cap on the number of vehicles/manufacturer. Sorry GM, you had your chance. You want it now, license it like ford and get your nice person going.
2. Inverse tax credit (also known as a tax penalty) for buying a gas-guzzler. The tax credit is based on the amount of MPG over an EPA guideline. There should be a tax penalty paid for MPG UNDER an EPA guideline. And it's all vehicles that are street legal in one group, none of this BS where SUV's aren't really a car. They drive it on the highway, they transport thier kids to school, it's a big-nice person car.
3. EPA standards get increased 1 MPG/year for the next 10 years.
4. The next step is home fuel costs. Phase out hot water heaters over the next 10 years in favor of tankless (on demand) systems. As the max life of a hot water heater is about 12 years, this should replace almost all in the US.
5. Hybrids aren't the end answer, but it's the best we got right now. We need to invest in real alternative fuels. And I don't mean corn based ethanol! Then we'll have a corn shortage!!
6. Electric generation needs to be more efficient. Seems like the best solution there is to require smaller plants by encouraging solar panels. The US needs to offer huge tax breaks for solar panels (both home and commercial) and invest heavily in making these more efficient. Solar/wind/water should be invested in for the remaining generation plants that are necessary.

Write to your congress people and push for a real energy policy. Before it's too late and we bring the rapture upon ourselves (if you believe in that sort of thing - I don't personally, but I believe that this administration does and has based public policy around that belief - why worry about global warming if the end of the world is coming in the next 50 years anyway??).




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ May 10 2006, 08:18 PM) [snapback]253320[/snapback]</div>

I somewhat disagree with you Tripp... as a sports nutritionist, I believe alot can be contributed to diet. But probably not in the sense that you are. I believe the pesticides, genetic engineering and heavy processing of foods contribute a great deal to the aches and pains of society. They rob our food of vital nutrients. Spinach doesn't have the same micronutrient profile that it used to. There's a huge difference between organic and conventionally grown produce. And don't even get me started on the meat supply!

But that said, ALOT is in the environment. There are significantly more polutants in the air today than 50 years ago. The body requires more vitamins, minerals and anti-oxidants to combat them. But of course, since we are not getting them from our food supply, we are getting sicker.

So, the solution for the unexplained increase in respiratory illnesses is twofold:
1. Eliminate the polutants
2. Cleanup the food supply