USA Today Review of Hybrid Accord

And want leather.

 

Sorry, with that review, why would anyone buy an Accord hybrid vs. the Prius? I'll want to drive one, but just reading about the "more power" thing speaks of the big 3's selling points. When is 250 HP needed? Better yet, when will 50-60 MPG vs. 30 MPG be needed? Me thinks, soon...Love my Prius!

 

Hmmmm.…. Power of an Accord 6 cylinder with the mileage of a Civic 4 cylinder but priced MUCH higher than the Civic :roll: . Anyone want to figure how many miles it would take to break even on this purchase?

If pure horsepower is a primary concern when purchasing a car, why would anyone even consider this car? There are quite a number of cars that would blow the doors off of the hybrid Accord and are significantly less expensive.

Better question would be, when is 250 HP utilized? Rarely.
When is 50-60 MPG utilized? 100% of the time.

 

I think you've nailed their market target, Tony.

BTW, while the article isn't awful or blatantly ignorant, the author fudges here and there when comparing the H-Accord to other hybrids.

Actually, I'd argue strongly that the Honda Civic Hybrid did the exact same thing.

That's not a positive feature for me; but for people who are more comfortable with a more familiar "UI", I've always thought the Honda Civic Hybrid (and now the Accord) present a viable alternative.

(I also think that most techno-phobic grandmothers would have no problems with a Prius after 3 days; but again, I understand where they're coming from.)
[hr:ed58b3858e]
Regarding the article's other "significant firsts" for the Honda Accord Hybrid, I agree they're firsts (shutting down some of the engine, biggest gas engine in a hybrid (wait, what about the Silverado? :mrgreen: )); but significant? Nope.

Hey, I'm happy if more people are buying hybrids, and the Accord Hybrid is a success. But it comes down to the Prius being cleaner, more fuel-efficient, cheaper, and with all the power you're going to need driving America's highways.

And oh, yeah: cooler gadgets. :wink:

 

I'm dissapointed to see the mpg nubers that low. Lexus not only will be able to almost match the 0-60 ( suv 'mind you ) but will get the same gas mileage. Our prius will never get gas mileage that low which is nice. As for 0-60... i've never found a good use for something that fast. my old car did a 6 second.. but really.. even merging on short stretches, i was going faster than other people. The accord is a dissapointment to me and i like the curren models. My friends drive them and i've driven them. But.. hey.. a little boost is MPG is better than no boost. maybe it will help open other companies eyes since it's on a larger "normal" car.

 

Wow. A 3-litre V6 is a "normal" car in the USA? You really need some more expensive fuel, fast, to price you out of those ridiculous vehicles.

I don't imagine they'll try to sell that particular hybrid Accord in Europe; the top-end Accord in the UK is a 2.4-litre 4 cylinder, and if we want economy they sell the 2.2-litre turbodiesel, which gives 43 mpg (US).

I note it won't qualify for California's HOV lanes.

 

I used to be of the belief that any adaptation of hybrid’s was a good thing for furthering the acceptance of the technology, but I am now beginning the question this belief. While it is true that any MPG increase boost is a good thing, the latest hybrid announcements (Ford Escape, Chevy Silverado, Honda Accord) are making me question the impact on the market at large.

It appears to me that these could further the argument from detractors that the initial cost is not worth the payback, or worse yet, lead to additional increases in automotive HP with the same MPG ratings. In addition, I also wonder if the impact may lead some to “upgrade†to larger hybrid vehicles with the same fuel economy of their current non-hybrid vehicles.

Or have I just become a MPG snob?

 

Maybe i'm a mph snob.. but i think any new hybrid comming out should qualify for Ca HOV lane usage. If not, it's not doing very well because normal cars are almost able to match/beat it on mpg ratings. The auto companies really need to try harder. Take a loss, it's called an investment.

At the same time.. i hope we are headed in the right direction. Make the technology widely known, then make better mpg cars. If we are headed in this direction, then good.. if not.. then crap.. our prius gets a minimal 38mpg (standard wheels, etc).. i've tested it.. i can't get any lower than that.. with these other hybrids, what's their minimal. This is what our gas raitings should show. There should be EPA.. and bad driver MPG ratings.

 

I wonder how much of that MPG improvement they would have gotten, and how much smaller the price premium would be with just the three-cylinder shutdown alone.

I have to confess that I don't understand who the target market is for this vehicle, or its appeal. It doesn't have the geek appeal or make an environmental statement like the Prius, and neither of them makes sense economically if you only consider cost of ownership (but not the cost of the impact to the environment, cost of finding a replacement for fossil fuels, etc.). For the same price, I'd rather have the entry-level Lexus (ES300) than a gussied-up Accord.

 

Have owned Honda products for over 15 years and I really miss my Acura RL with all the goodies. Am sure the Accord Hybrid will be a quality product and backed with great warranties.
But the Prius blows it away. Higher gas mileage, better warranty, more fun to drive, etc. etc.
Cudos to Honda for moving forward but Honda needs to go from passive to active hybrid, now.
Come on, you can do it!

 

I don't understand why thy didn't use the CVT... i was just thinking about it and everyone i've talked to lovest he CVT. They find it nice that the car ride is always smooth no matter what. They say the car zooms. I found it weird when i first drive it but fell in love with it. I also heard you get a better power breakdown with the CVT. Gears are a little outdated.

I wonder how a hybrid system and a cvt would hold up in a large truck ( cement trunk, shipping trucks, etc) the electric motors could help a lot. *shrug*

I hope all the rest of the companies catch up to Toyota. My friend mentioned that they are being stupid by not sharing the technology. But i told him that they are licensing it out. His opinion didn't change much. "holding other companies back from producing a certain amount or giving them only the previous release of the system is stupid"... hmm.. ok.. but it's business. I applaud Toyota for even licensing out he techonology. It makes it somewhat affordable for the other companies. :mrgreen:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V8Cobrakid\";p=\"41540)</div>

Honda has been having problems with the belt slipping lately. (They use the Cone & Belt type, a completely different kind of CVT than what Prius uses.) Resourceful owners have discovered a way of fixing it by simply changing the tranny fluid more often. That very well could be enough for the acceleration Civic-Hybrid was designed to offer. But for an aggressive system like Accord-Hybrid, it was likely a bad idea for both reliability and responsiveness.

GM also had some type of CVT (the Cone & Belt) problem last year. But they seem to have overcome that. And Ford is introducing a CVT vehicle for 2005. Perhaps they have a solution too.

Whatever the case, new designs aren't cheap. And since Honda's plans are to only offer 20,000 it may not have been a cost-effective choice to create a new & bigger CVT for Accord-Hybrid to use.

I'm just glad Honda is finally helping reverse the stereotype they created. The whole first year I owned my Prius, their only hybrid was a constant source of irritation. (Thank goodness the owners were kind.) Almost everyone I mentioned having a hybrid to immediately responded with "that little Honda". Arrgh! So many people were under the impression that saving gas meant having a very small, 2-seat car was awful. No one believed the technology could be used in larger vehicles nor could it be powerful enough to compete with a traditional design. Well, now they will know it can. And I feel better about that the impressive people will get now. They will finally discover the variety of hybrid designs possible is much wider than they imagined.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny\";p=\"41587)</div>

My prediction is that it won't sell any better than the Civic Hybrid, meaning a few dealers may have 45 day waits, but many dealers will always have a few in inventory, and a person willing to purchase outside their local area will always be able to find a vehicle with no wait.

From Toyota’s Prius Proving to Be the Hotter Ride in Hybrids

The article was published last month (August 2004).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V8Cobrakid\";p=\"41540)</div>

GM hybrid transit buses are in use in over half a dozen US cities. Seattle completed their pilot program and bought 235 of them. The hybrid powertrain adds $200k onto the $445k price of each bus. They say it has a CVT ("EVDRIVE"), but from the description I read, it sounds unlike any CVT ever put in an automobile.

I don't have a good article to link, but here's one from their kid's web site

Freight locomotives in the US have "series" hybrid powertrains. Diesel engines (with pistons the size of paint cans) turn alternators that generate electricity for the "traction motors".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V8Cobrakid\";p=\"41540)</div>

There are people who claim every Prius is sold at a loss, though Toyota says otherwise. How does he think Toyota, or any company making anything, stays in business if they give away every invention they come up with at the cost of millions of dollars in development?

 

lol.. that's what i told him.. he didn't say much after that but you could tell he was still behind his original idea

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KMO\";p=\"41506)</div>

From your mouth to God's ear, KMO. (Well... as soon as my Prius arrives. )