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Used oil analysis Mobil 1 0W 20

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by jayman, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I promised awhile back I’d post the results of my use of Mobil 1 0W-20 as a “winter†oil. Not that we had a super cold winter this year, not at all like last winter. Still, it cooled off to -35 for awhile in February and the car had plenty of city driving this winter.

    I actually went quite a bit over my scheduled oil change interval, as many work issues kept popping up: 9,600 km instead of the usual 8,000km. The used oil analysis surprised me, so much so I may use this oil year round.

    The first column is the Mobil 1 0W-20 with 9,600 km of use, the second column is from last summer use of Mobil 1 0W-30. All numbers are in ppm except as noted:

    Fe 8 , 6
    Cr 0 , 0
    Mb 70 , 70
    Al 2 , 2
    Cu 0 , 1
    Pb 0 , 0
    Sn 1 , 0
    Si 16 , 17
    Na 25 , 75
    Zn 723 , 642
    K 3 , 3
    Ni 0 , 0
    Ag 0 , 0

    Fuel Residue: 0.0 , 0.0
    Glycol Residue: 0.0 , 0.0
    Moisture Residue: 0.1 , 0.0

    TBN: 7.0 , 7.5

    The insoluble’s were very low, and it was the opinion of the lab the oil was good for plenty more service. At least with Mobil 1, I can see why the Prius in the EU market has a “normal†16,000km or 12 month service interval.

    You’ll also notice the Na levels came *way* down once I stopped using that garbage dealer mystery 5W-30 oil. Maybe that’s why some Toyota 3.0 V6 Sienna’s had the sludging problem, by using a garbage dealer oil.
     
    #1 jayman, Apr 17, 2006
  2. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    cool. :) makes me feel even better about using mobil 1, that's for sure.

    thanks, jay.
     
    #2 galaxee, Apr 17, 2006
  3. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    ok you have your fuel milage from last summer, run the 0-20 this summer and compare if it's more FE to use it. Nice to see the low numbers other than the zinc. Mind you the number is so close in the real world as to be insignificant. Thanks for posting it.
     
    #3 Frank Hudon, Apr 17, 2006
  4. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Apr 17 2006, 09:54 PM) [snapback]241297[/snapback]</div>
    Frank:

    Oops too late, I refilled with Mobil 1 0W-30. So far the results are a little better on the highway (4.5 vs 4.6 tank average) compared to last summer.

    I did call the testing lab abou the Zn and they thought it was ok. Their overall opinion was that the motor was producing very low wear metals and that the oil was holding up very well.

    Oh, go to toyota dot ca and look up the Service menu for the Prius. I caught a blurb about it being ok to use a 5W-30 *or* a 5W-20. It that isn't a typo, then I'll start using Mobil 1 0W-20 year round.

    j
     
    #4 jayman, Apr 17, 2006
  5. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Apr 17 2006, 06:54 PM) [snapback]241255[/snapback]</div>
    OK I hate to do this but when I order "labs" I get normal values. (BTW I also know the norms for pregnancy, very different in some cases) What are the normal values? What is the range? As I look at this it appears to be good... I guess?
     
    #5 hdrygas, Apr 17, 2006
  6. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas @ Apr 17 2006, 10:22 PM) [snapback]241306[/snapback]</div>
    Sorry I forgot to include the “universal†averages. I’ll put them in brackets:

    Fe 8 , 6, (6)
    Cr 0 , 0, (1)
    Mb 70 , 70, (28)
    Al 2 , 2, (2)
    Cu 0 , 1, (3)
    Pb 0 , 0, (2)
    Sn 1 , 0, (1)
    Si 16 , 17, (5)
    Na 25 , 75, (4)
    Zn 723 , 642, (1066)
    K 3 , 3, (5)
    Ni 0 , 0, (0)
    Ag 0 , 0, (0)

    Generally, the wear metals are: Fe, Cr, Al. Cu, Pb, Ni, and Ag. Mb, Sn, Na, and K are generally additives found in motor oil, Na can also indicate a very minor coolant leak.

    My mystery dealer oil had enormous levels of Na but the level has been dropped since switching to Mobil 1.

    Si generally indicates dirt getting past the air filter, which is my own fault. Every month or so I like to remove the air filter and tap out the loose dust. The testing lab is aware of this and they do not consider it a problem, but they also told me I might as well leave the air filter alone too.

    In general, high Al and Fe levels – many times beyond the “universal†average - would indicate piston scuffing. Bearing wear can be indicated by high levels of Pb, Zn,Cu, Ni etc.

    The testing lab saw no problem with continued use of this oil and suggested a gradual increase in oil change interval also wouldn’t hurt. So I’m confident this oil is at least suitable for “winter†use and probably year round use.

    If you dramatically extend the oil change interval you have to mess around with adding high efficiency bypass filters, which I’m not going to do at this point.
     
    #6 jayman, Apr 18, 2006
    douglasjre likes this.
  7. yakky

    yakky New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Apr 18 2006, 11:11 AM) [snapback]241489[/snapback]</div>
    You may want to just remove the cover (if that can be done in the Prius, I haven't touched mine yet) and just vacuum it instead of removin g it and tapping it out. It'll get more dirt out and won't break the seal between the housing and filter.

    I was going to try the 0w-20 but Wal-Mart only had 2 quarts... I have a deep love hate relationship with them, love the prices, hate everything else.
     
    #7 yakky, Apr 24, 2006
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Cannot remember when or where I last posted a summary of Prius engine oil analyses at PC, but they now number 14 known to me. See tha attached spreadsheet.

    Perhaps this could qualify for its own thread, even made sticky, in this section. Then we might cajole more folks into getting and posting analyses, and have a place to discuss the new ones as they appear.
     
    #8 tochatihu, Jul 1, 2006
  9. Bill Lumbergh

    Bill Lumbergh USAF Aircraft Maintainer

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    My oil analysis from today from Blackstone Labs:

    Comments: Nothing too unusual showed up on your first oil sample from your Prius. At 13,926 miles it appears that your 1.5L has matured past engine break-in. We wouldn't be surprised if wear continued to improve, though. Toyota makes some of the best wearing engines we see on a regular basis and we doubt yours is an exception. The trace of fuel is likely due to city driving/idling and isn't a problem. No coolant or moisture was found and the air and oil filters (silcon and insolubles) are working well. try 5K miles next time. Universal averages are based on an oil run of 6700 miles.

    3100 miles on oil (Mobil 1 5-30 with OEM filter)
    13,926 on engine
    sample date 4/14/07

    Measured, universal averages (PPM):

    Aluminum 3, 3
    Chromium 0, 0
    Iron 10, 8
    Copper 1, 1
    Lead 0, 0
    Tin 0, 0
    Molybdenum 80, 63
    Nickel 1, 0
    Maganese 0, 1
    Silver 0, 0
    Titanium 0, 0
    Potassium 1, 1
    Boron 37, 61
    Silicon 14, 14
    Sodium 9, 7
    Calcium 2286, 2330
    Magnesium 17, 34
    Phosphorus 647, 626
    Zinc 763, 718
    Barium 0, 0

    ............

    SUS Viscosity @ 210 deg F, measured: 58.4, should be 55-62. Flashpoint was 365 deg F, should be >365 deg F. Trace fuel detected, should be <2.0. Antifreeze and water both 0%, insolubles measured .3, should be <.6.
     
    #9 Bill Lumbergh, Apr 24, 2007
  10. p626808

    p626808 New Member

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    #10 p626808, Apr 24, 2007
  11. Bill Lumbergh

    Bill Lumbergh USAF Aircraft Maintainer

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    You bring up some good points. First, I exceeded the recommended time between changes by a *lot*. I wanted to make sure the oil hadn't gone south while sitting for four months, then endured more punishment over the winter. I typically drive far more miles before the recommended change interval runs out, but I was gone for four months, and then I had a travel-free winter.

    I didn't get the TBN, though, in hindsight I should have.

    Now that i know what I can get away with, it will probably be a year/10,000 miles before I change it again. Should I ever sell the car (and upgrade to a newer Prius), it will peace of mind for the new owner to know my extended intervals weren't hurting the engine.
     
    #11 Bill Lumbergh, Apr 24, 2007
  12. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    Filter claps itself out w every intake pulse.

    The paper separates from the seal and rips w age

    Fine dirt you can't see clogs paper. Clapping it out does nothing.

    Removing a filter let's bypass dirt over the rim. Don't reuse filters. Street sweeper drivers who do this notoriously destroy the engine

    Partially dirty filters trap more fine dirt than new filters

    Filters have ribs that face down or vertical so dirt falls into catch tray.

    Again, don't clap out filters.

    Don't buy high flow filters. Their porosity is wrong.

    OEM only if you like your top ring and valve guides

    Ok, now discuss
     
    #12 douglasjre, Nov 29, 2021
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