V1.1 EV only vehicle for sale, How much would you pay?

I presume "street-legal" means not necessarily freeway-capable. The question as posed is problematic for me. My minimum requirement is the ability to drive to Coeur d'Alene and back on a charge, which is about 30 miles each way, mostly freeway. So I will not buy an EV unless it has at least a 100-mile range and can safely drive on the freeway. That means it can cruise at 65 mph with good acceleration from there to 70 for passing.

For this car I would pay $50K if it's a ho-hum sedan, or $100K if it's sporty like the Tesla or the tzero.

However, I would not buy any conversion unless I had an extremely high degree of confidence in the company doing the conversion. So if you are talking about a start-up company based in your garage, you'll first have to convince me of the quality both of your work and your design, and I'm not easy to convince.

On the other hand, if you open an authorized Tesla dealership in Spokane tomorrow and have Tesla Roadsters on the lot, I'll be there to buy one when you open your doors. (Hypothetical, since they have not started production yet, and they have a long waiting list.)

 

As daniel stated, the question really isn't as simple as i think you want it to be... You do state that it would be a converted used car... But i've seen a TON of used cars, and they come in all shapes, sizes, colors and conditions... Additionally, being a used car i wouldn't be willing to pay all that much on it... Way more goes into a car than the engine, and you have a much increased risk of problems in all areas of the car as the car gets older.

If it was a brand new, factory EV from an established, reliable company i'd be willing to pay a lot for it. A converted used car from a no-name company, however, doesn't hold any appeal to me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(etyler88 @ Feb 14 2007, 01:36 PM) [snapback]390336[/snapback]</div>

Unfortunately, early adopters is a hard thing to define. Certainly there are people who are out there doing EV conversions on their Prii. There are also people out there, like Darell, who own EV's. Even many people on this board could be considered early adopters for purchasing a Prius.

Take a look at Geoffrey Moore's Chasm Diagram. It clearly shows the early adopters, followed by a chasm where many companies die, waiting for everyone else to jump on. As my boss said yesterday, many companies sacrifice a lot in order to cross this chasm. In most cases, that means adding features at the expense of other items (in our case, it was performance, and we now have to play catch up in that area). Your proposed idea doesn't contain enough to get many early adopters.

You're also competing in a rather flooded market for early adopters. Many of the ones you would hope to get, like Darell, already have EV's that perform better than what you're discussing. Many of the remaining people are willing to wait on the list for a Tesla or similar. That leaves you a very small pool of early adopters - those who want an EV, haven't been in a position to get one yet, and have enough money to spend on a car that may or may not live up to expectations. Most people view the purchase of a new car very seriously, and won't go with something overly risky.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(etyler88 @ Feb 14 2007, 02:36 PM) [snapback]390336[/snapback]</div>

Early adopters of what? A used car EV conversion? Or something like a EV Prius-level of engineering from a big car company? It's a complex question with more than a 4-choice answer.

I don't know that I could see much more then $30K tops for what would be basically a commuter car but it would depend on the car. Is it going to have heat and AC? Is it going to have a warranty? Are potential customers going to feel like the company will be around in 5 or 10 years? If it shorts out and kills me in a fire, will my survivors be able to sue you? I was kidding on that last one, the others are questions that come to the top of my mind.

 

Yes, Eagle's response is fantastic.

And while I still don't know what to vote, I figure I'll take the highest one just because I'm willing to pay what it costs for a real EV. As I said in the other thread, I'm not a huge fan of conversions. It is one reason why I won't be making a PHEV out of my Prius. Would be WAY better and cheaper to do it right, from the beginning, at the factory. I'm an early adopter, yes (he says with his 10-year-old DVD player spinning in the background) and I'm not afriad to spend my money on something that'll make a difference. Conversions aren't going to be for the masses, however, and the real difference will have to come from the big guns (currently being humiliated into it by the little guns like Tesla).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(etyler88 @ Feb 14 2007, 03:10 PM) [snapback]390370[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, but for $10K, can you really even buy a used minivan, motor, batteries, charger, and whatever other parts it needs, much less put it together and sell it at a profit?

If I was interested enough in doing one myself, there's probably enough kits out there to make it happen, when I looked into it a few years, the base vehicle seemed to be something like a small car with a manual tranmission (i.e., Civic, Golf etc.), and the motor/generator was tied directly to the trans input shaft without a clutch if I remember right. I don't know what you'd use for a transaxle in the Chrysler if you pulled the existing one out, you need something to get the power to and from the motor and the axles, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want the electric motor connected to an automatic transmission. I think another reason for a small car as a base to get around the lack of a continuously running engine for things like power steering, also, which the conversions didn't seem to have, aside from just needing a smaller motor and less battery capacity to haul less vehicle around etc.. I'd expect there's someone here who's done their own EV conversion who could give us more insight and details.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(etyler88 @ Feb 14 2007, 02:10 PM) [snapback]390370[/snapback]</div>

:blush:

I'm an engineer, budding entrepreneur, and have studied such matters fairly extensively - The question of market acceptance is huge, and you have to have a great answer for it before you can propose a new product.

FWIW, when Jobs announced the iPhone i was ecstatic - i want one badly (i'm an early adopter for many things ). However, when he went on to describe the market size and Apple's projected market capture, i cringed and almost dumped all my Apple stock before the speech was over. I'm sure they have better numbers behind the scenes, but his whole 1% of the market thing was a common mistake beginners make - he didn't properly evaluate the target market. It sounds great to say "we only need 1%"... but that only works if you have the proper market in mind. the iPhone doesn't appeal to the entire cell phone market - only a small subset of them with established competition like RIM. It's a similar market setup with the proposed EV situation here.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 14 2007, 11:20 AM) [snapback]390324[/snapback]</div>

OOPS!!! I missed the fact that it was to be a USED car. You just lost me. I will not buy a used car. Period. I WILL pay the full cost of a new car plus the conversion IF I am convinced of the quality and reliability of the conversion, and the staying-power of the company for repairs. And if I like the car. (I'd buy a converted Civic, but I don't like the Scion xBox.)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(etyler88 @ Feb 14 2007, 11:36 AM) [snapback]390336[/snapback]</div>

Okay, that part's good. But I need a 100-mile range for a safety buffer to go to Coeur d'Alene and back. And as I said above, you lost me on the USED part.

I suppose using used cars keeps your costs down. The problem is you have no consistency of quality. Used cars have such different life histories.

 

If you can provide something like AC propulsions ebox but lower the price to around $40K total instead of $72K as they want, then I would be interested. I don't need 150 miles range BUT 50 miles feels short. Those would have to be proven REAL WORLD miles and with a reasonable charge time.

It also has to be based on a modern safe car, it would have to retain all safety aspects and aminites like cooling and heat. But yes, I would consider a conversion and I will be in th market for one in a couple of years.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Feb 14 2007, 05:25 PM) [snapback]390594[/snapback]</div>

If AC Propulsion converted a Civic I'd be very interested. I think the Scion is ugly. But I understand their reasons: The Scion has room for the batteries.

 

Sorry, but you don't have "none of the above".

As much as I'd like to have an EV, I'm not paying for an EV retrofitted used car with only a three year warranty. I just have my doubts about it "holding up".

And the 50 mile limit is a deal breaker. I need to be able to drive from San Diego to L.A. without recharging in the middle. And how long would this recharging take? As beautiful as San Juan Capistrano is, there is only so much you can do for several hours each way. And....where would it get charged?

I can't own two cars. So this "EV" would be replacing my current Prius. It would be my primary car, my daily driver. I know how reliable my Prius is.

 

While I think the Scion is ugly it's a very versatile car for it's size. No space left unused. For a conversion to be interesting it would have to be a practical car that at the same time is not too expensive to buy. I think the Scion's are good examples. The XA and XB are built on the same platform so the ebox could work in the XA as well.

Anyway, my family would consider a 50+ mile EV car. We would keep the Prius as our 2nd car and use the EV as a commuter/city car. The EV would see the most use. This would still be a risk for us as it would require that one of our jobs are within 25 miles. Currently that is only true for my job, and things could change. If the range could be extended to 75-100 miles it would be great (even at an extra later cost).

Also, living in Boston, I would like to see that car work duing our winters. They are not terrible, but cold could affect the range and battery life.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Feb 14 2007, 11:13 PM) [snapback]390739[/snapback]</div>

My view is that with present technology an EV would not work for you. It would work for someone who can afford to keep two cars (or needs two cars anyway), to use the gas-powered car for long drives; or for someone who never takes long trips, or takes them so seldom that renting a car for road trips is a viable option.

But someone who can only have one car and must make such a long commute regularly needs a car that can be refuelled quickly while on the road.

If I had an EV I would keep my Prius for road trips, such as summer hiking in Canada.

 

I'd pay $5k to $9k for one... I'd pay 15k - 32k, if it could get the same mileage on a single charge as the prius does on a tank of gas ....

That would be Ideal!! but the present EV's are normally good for 80 or so miles.

Hey if you want a intown commuter buy a GEM for 9k....

you can buy one of these fully loaded pick-ups for 16.5k

 

50 miles leaves me to walk the last 15 miles to work every day. I guess if I could plug it in where it left me in the lurch, I could walk another 15 back to it after work and drive it home.

$20k for an all electric that can get me 200 miles on a cold winter day into a stiff wind @ 65mph.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(etyler88 @ Feb 14 2007, 01:36 PM) [snapback]390336[/snapback]</div>

Put that in a new Honda or Toyota and we can talk... if it'll go 100 miles.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Feb 14 2007, 02:27 PM) [snapback]390385[/snapback]</div>

What are you talking about??? You have a real EV. Are you saying you'd buy another?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(etyler88 @ Mar 30 2007, 08:42 AM) [snapback]414850[/snapback]</div>

You state that these cars are available, but the article quotes him using the future tense.

And are we supposed to believe that an expensive British sports car that was sold used for $300 will have any reliable components remaining in it???

Finally, a "guaranteed range of 60 to 100 miles" means a guaranteed range of 60 miles. That's still short of what I'd need to get to Coeur d'Alene and back.

These cars are not what I need, they appear not to be available now, and they sound extremely unreliable.

Bottom line: If you want an EV now, your choices are: A used RAV4EV; an AC Propulsion xBox (but only if you live in CA); a GEM or similar (25 mph); a Chinese-built Xebra or similar (can be modified to 40 mph); a Myers Motors NMG or similar (totally cool, but only 20 to 30 mile range); or wait for one of many promised but not here yet vehicles. (Tesla, Obvio, Volt... the latter probably available in the year 3075.)

Please, everyone: Before announcing that a vehicle is "available" make sure that it actually exists, now, at some kind of a dealer where we could actually buy one, today, if we wanted to. Not merely a company that will let us place an order for delivery at some undetermined date in the future.