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Very Poor MPG

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by RobertL, Dec 6, 2005.

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  1. RobertL

    RobertL New Member

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    New Prius Owner! 2005 Silver Prius! Love the car and the goodies. Drive the car to work daily about 4 miles total. On weekends drive the car around town, stop and go, shopping and very much local driving. Live in Virginia. Have about 700 miles on car. I am on my third tanks of gas. The best I got so far is 38 MPG. The second tank only got 34 MPG and this tank being my third only getting 26 MPG. I have read every post on here pertaining to gas mileage and how to get the most. I've experimented with the "B" mode and got worst mileage. The temp here is in the mid 20's to mid 30's currently. Looking forward to taking it on a long trip to see if MPG would get better. Bought the car for it's MPG and really can't get a car with all of the goodies that this for the price. I think it is a really good deal. Still learning about the car and it's personality. I throughly enjoy reading all of the post in all forums in Priuschat. You folks are a lot of help and have some great knowledge of the Prius. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Wish I could get better MPG. Any tips for improving MPG for short distance driving? And what is this EV device that I have heard mention on here? Is that an third party add-on device? Does it void the warranty if added? Is this something Toyota offers?

    Thanks,
    RobertL
     
    #1 RobertL, Dec 6, 2005
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    If all you drive is 4 miles a day you will definately have problems getting very good gas mileage (relative to the EPA numbers). And with cold weather you're never going to even get the ICE completely warmed up.

    To help reduce some of the cold weather 'hit' I suggest considering installation of an engine block heater--these can be ordered from Canada (do a search for more info). This essentially pre-warms the engine to about 137 degrees give or take and dramatically shortens the warm-up period. Most of us use a timer so it comes on about 3 hours before we typically leave the house.

    If you can also plug it in while at work so much the better.

    Finally, be sure to read my Knowledge Base article (accessible via a couple of links in the Knowledge Base Articles discussion forum) for more tips.

    Also, there's an article there on the EV button. Not something you need to worry a lot about as it won't help your mileage on the type of driving you do.
     
    #2 efusco, Dec 6, 2005
  3. Bill Lumbergh

    Bill Lumbergh USAF Aircraft Maintainer

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    Dealers have block heaters aailabel as well. If you are unable to locate one at your dealer, let me know and I'll dig up my receipt.

    Temps here have been in the single digits the last couple weeks and I'm averaging only 33 MPG this tank, even with a block heater.

    Also, your engine probably isn't fully broken-in yet, so don't expect peak performance. Search this site for tips on maximizing your fuel economy.
     
    #3 Bill Lumbergh, Dec 6, 2005
  4. Jack 06

    Jack 06 New Member

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    To take the last first, Priuses sold in Europe and other places have an EV button, enabling them to drive in electric-only mode for limited distances and speeds. Basically good for short around-town hops. Even then, the battery has to get recharged sometime...

    Some Americans have aded an EV mod---not too hard to do. But yes, it voids the warranty. Toyota has even SPECIFIED this year (in its FAQs) that it voids the warranty.

    Do you have time (say, at least 2 hours), maybe on a weekend/day off, to simply take your car for a "country drive"? You need to do that, IMO, partly to establish some valid "baseline data" in your mind, and partly to restore your confidence in the car.

    The couple of specifics you're offered---short hops, low temps---is the Prius Recipe For Disaster. Every year these forums deal with people who got their cars after the warm weather ended and who're disappointed in their MPG. What part of VA are you in, E or W? I lived there (Lynchburg = central)), and it won't warm up that much 'til March.

    No, outside of the block heater (which may not help you much), there's no quick fix for short-hop/low temps. You can improve it a little with careful driving techniques, but not substantially. MPGs in the 20's is a little extreme, even for a Prius. One of our longest-duration (since '01) owners lives in MN and says he gets barely under 40 MPG in the dead of winter.
     
    #4 Jack 06, Dec 6, 2005
  5. GreenMachine

    GreenMachine New Member

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    Have you checked and/or increased your tire pressure? Low tire pressure due to colder weather might explain some of the low mileage.

    Several members increase tire pressure above that recommend to gain a few mpg. You might not have seen that yet in your searches -- another minor suggestion.

    Love your attitude about the car.
     
    #5 GreenMachine, Dec 6, 2005
  6. kingofgix

    kingofgix New Member

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    Glad you like the car. Mileage on short trips is bad, especially in cold weather. The car tries to warm itself up when first turned on, and doesn't shut down on downhills or at traffic lights until warm. It also tries to keep you warm if the heater is on. I notice that my first 5 minute mileage bar is usually around 30 mpg, then it starts to go up when the car is warm.

    I really can't say if your mileage is bad or not based on the type of driving you say you do, but I am getting 51 mpg lifetime after 25,000 miles in Colorado, so there is some hope. Yoiu might check your tire pressure. I run 42 psi front 40 psi rear and think the car rides fine.
     
    #6 kingofgix, Dec 6, 2005
  7. DocVijay

    DocVijay Active Member

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    I agree with Dr. Fusco. With the short diatances and the cold weather you are going to have some difficulty getting higher numbers. Of course, as compared to other cars, 38 mpg is exceptionally high. You may just have to wait until it gets warmer to see any drastic improvement.

    As for me, Florida doesn't really get too cold, and I'll be driving my Prius 120 miles each day come January, so my numbers should be up pretty quickly.
     
    #7 DocVijay, Dec 6, 2005
  8. jwe8f

    jwe8f New Member

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    WHAT? Links, please! Is my entire warranty voided? Or just anything related to the installation of the switch?
     
    #8 jwe8f, Dec 6, 2005
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Before I declare this blatantly wrong let me give Jack 06 the opportunity to find that particular FAQ and point me to it.

    The latest FAQ that even approached addressing the issue said that adding and EV button AND additional battery capacity/grid charging would void the warranty.

    I just checked the Toyota site. There's no FAQ on the Prius site and the HSD site FAQs don't address the EV button at all.

    In any case, there's no evidence it does any harm, but it's difficult to use to good benefit and you have other issues to address to improve your mileage before confounding the issue with an EV button.
     
    #9 efusco, Dec 6, 2005
  10. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    This is extensively covered in my article on the EV mod and in multiple recurrent discussions since.

    Installation does not void any warranty. At the very worst if there was a problem with your car, particularly with the HV battery, the HV battery control ECU or the main ECU and you had an EV button installed and the dealer wanted to be an nice person then, maybe, they could blame the problem on your EV switch and refuse to do the repair under warranty.

    They can't touch any other part of your warranty if the button isn't directly related to the problem you're trying to get warranty service under. That's guaranteed under Manguson-Moss Act.

    My service tech is very much aware of my EV button and couldn't care less about it...was actually quite fascinated to learn that it could be done on the US car.

    But, as I always add, if you cannot afford to replace a $3500 battery or a $1500 ECU or both should you have a warranty issue then this mod is something you need to very carefully consider before doing.
     
    #10 efusco, Dec 6, 2005
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    But seriously, all the programming is already in the Prius. All we did is add a switch.
     
    #11 Tideland Prius, Dec 7, 2005
  12. Jack 06

    Jack 06 New Member

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    25. Does Toyota support the modification of my Prius to be a plug-in Hybrid and run on electric mode only with a switch?

    Any such alterations, modifications or tampering with the vehicle voids the warranty and is likely to be counterproductive for air quality and Prius’ durability and safety.

    toyota.com > Prius > 360 views and demonstrations > FAQs
     
    #12 Jack 06, Dec 7, 2005
  13. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    wow... you'll be getting 60+ MPG in no time! :lol:
     
    #13 LaughingMan, Dec 7, 2005
  14. jwe8f

    jwe8f New Member

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    http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2006/prius/...launch_faq.html
     
    #14 jwe8f, Dec 7, 2005
  15. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Yup, same wording that's been there for over a year. Installing an EV switch has nothing to do with modifying the car to be a plug-in vehicle. The car is not "altered", "tampered with", or "modified". The installation of a switch simply allows the US user access to a pre-existing feature designed into the vehicle.
     
    #15 efusco, Dec 7, 2005
  16. jwe8f

    jwe8f New Member

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    Wait a minute though -- I do understand there probably isn't much impact to this, as they have been ignoring such installations to date, but doesn't "Does Toyota support the modification of my Prius to ... run on electric mode only with a switch?" describe the EV switch perfectly? Or does the 'and' carry a lot of legal weight...?
     
    #16 jwe8f, Dec 7, 2005
  17. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    No, but it does have something to do with the second part of the sentence.."and run on electric mode only with a switch." So I'm confused enough not to bet my batteries on it just yet. Warrantys may be different from country to country, just as the specs are.
     
    #17 hyo silver, Dec 7, 2005
  18. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    It's never been challenged or tested. Magnuson-Moss act is your best legal protection here as it means that Toyota would have to prove that your EV button cause the damage that they're refusing to cover under warranty.

    And, in my personal opinion, that 'AND' is very important. If you look at the new HSD site FAQs they talk about why the Prius isn't available as a plug-in hybrid. The short answer is that grid charging shortens the battery life. I think the plug-in portion of the FAQ you guys mention is the key to their warranty concerns...no where does Toyota make a plug-in Prius publicly available. In both the EU and Japan the Prius with EV button is available--surely they wouldn't supply it there if there were battery life concerns.

    Again, if you are not certain or at all uncomfortable do not use your EV switch..take it out, sell it, whatever. I've never actively encouraged anyone to install an EV button. I have no concerns about mine..or anyone else's use of the EV button or of any warranty concerns with it either. But that isn't bullet-proof protection and my confidence is boosted by the fact that I could, if necessary, afford to pay for the repairs out of pocket...even if I never expect to have to do so.
     
    #18 efusco, Dec 7, 2005
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Also note that their warranty is of the same length as ours.
     
    #19 Tideland Prius, Dec 7, 2005
  20. Jack 06

    Jack 06 New Member

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    I may have misinterpreted it. I will call Toyota and find out if that's literally what they mean (plug-in AND...switch).
     
    #20 Jack 06, Dec 7, 2005
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