Volkswagen ID.4 Official Thread

I'm not sure it is fair to compare the Model Y with the ID.4. The price difference is considerable. If you include the Federal $7500 rebate, which isn't available for the Model Y, the price difference is almost $20,000. That is huge. That's like saying that a Lexus is better than a Toyota Yarris. Well, of course it is better, but it is almost irrelevant, considering the price difference.

I wonder what the Ioniq 5 is going to end up costing in the US. Will it be closer to Model Y pricing or ID.4 pricing? Or will it split the difference like the Mach-E (assuming you can get the tax rebate)?

 

Imagine how difficult it is to introduce a totally new model with such new technology in a chip constrained and transport limited world. Parts, dealer training, mechanic training, diagnostic equipment, charging stations at dealerships. And that is ignoring the car itself, any charging network, phone software, third party software and database arrangements, etc. It took Tesla maybe 8 years and they are still lacking in some service areas.

Look at the Rav4 prime and the difficulty an established company with enormous resources has in getting it out to all areas of the US let alone to all countries of the world.

 

seems like it was just a couple months ago that we did a test drive in one that obviously wasn't sold. That special version wasn't so special, just a couple different colors and little differences in the wheels & such iirc. Knowing an AWD version comes in about a month - perhaps the 2WD versions will just languish on their lots.
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Trying to get ahold of VW regarding the ugly/disappointing rumor that ID4 won't have a heat pump, but rather resistance (toaster) type heating.
If true? One can feel the disgust of new owners, that currently have no idea of the difference, & becoming disgusted with how much energy it takes to warm a cabin.
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The current EVs outside of Tesla are generation 1 and often outsourced their EV drivetrains. The Munro videos have done a great job of showing how weak these early products are. Hopefully EV makers will buy the Munro technical reports and hire/train their own drivetrain engineers.

Bob Wilson

 

Sounds like it is a supply issue. Tesla only recently switched to heat pumps, and other cars using them were low volume sellers. How many suppliers for them are there?

 

Could be. There is a connection between the two. The engine driven A/C compressor is cheaper than the electric one, not just because of fewer parts, but also because there is a larger production base for them. Likewise, the electric one is cheaper now with the sales expansion of hybrid models that use them.

A heat pump will have a higher cost than an air conditioner because of the extra parts. When automotive heat pump production is at the hundred of thousands to millions of units per year, that cost difference can be less than installing resistant heating. The production level just isn't there yet.

 

Starting Price in the US for a 2023 ID.4 Standard is MSRP $37,495 with a new 62 kWh battery pack. According to VW it should get 208 miles of range along with a 201 hp rear motor using a simulated EPA cycle. The ID.4 comes with 3 years of free 30-minute charging at Electrify America stations.

It is built in their new Chattanooga factory so the new tax credit should apply after the initial one runs out.

Volkswagen of America starting 2023 ID.4 electric SUV at $37,495 with 62 kWh pack - Green Car Congress

For direct VW pricing see: https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1699

In order to get AWD you'll need to get the ID.4 Pro which starts at MSRP $46,295 which increases the battery pack to 82 kWh, range increases to 255 miles (mfg estimate) and capable of towing to 2,700 lb. Keeping the RWD the ID.4 Pro starts at $42,495 with both version capable of 170kW DC fast charging. The ID.4 Pro RWD's range increases to 275 miles.

 

For my purposes this seems a compelling purchase but I would have to live with a RWD vehicle for winter driving. But the ID.4 Standard S trim adds really attractive features with 12-way power seats with memory, a heated steering wheel, a panoramic fixed glass roof, power tailgate, premium LED headlights with AFS - all for MSRP $42,495. It doesn't specifically say what the fast DC charging is for the ID.4 Standard and it's 62 kWh battery but I would rarely, if ever, use that anyways since mine would be used mainly for local running around. The 208 miles range I could live with but they left out a few details like A/C charge rate, battery warming and and specific remote features. In NY I would get a $2,000 instant rebate as well as a potential $7,500 tax credit.

Unfortunately I would have to move up to the ID.4 Pro S Plus trim at MSRP $50,195 to get heated rear seats, something the bZ4X can give for you for about $47,000 when you move up to the Limited trim that also includes a radiant leg warmer. But since it's just me usually I could live with the S trim on the ID.4 Standard.

On a side note I wonder if VW uses wheel studs or wheel bolts? More than likely wheel bolts like a lot of VWs and if someone gets the ID.4 they could troll Toyota and say this is how it works.

 

Is there a trim without the glass roof? That's a show-stopper for me.

 

Part of the reason VW opted for RWD with their BEV platform was that traction and stability control have come a long way since RWD was once the norm for cars.

 

The ID.4 Standard basic trim has no panoramic roof. The panoramic roof in the S trim does come with an electric sunshade so it's not open all the time. Actually it's not entirely clear whether the pano roof is an option on top of the S trim. Suppose I'll have to build one and see when that becomes available.

 

Admittedly I haven't driven a real RWD only vehicle in the last 20+ years. Before that all my vehicles were RWD only. Have to admit the Tacoma I drive now is RWD until I put it in 4WD, which I do about once a month to lube the transaxle. I really only used 4WD on purpose during the winter about 3 times and got along just fine on its RWD mode. I'll assume the ID.4 is probably the same weight as my Tacoma, so yeah it should do fine. I do know I will be changing the tires when it's time. I run all seasons on the Tacoma and stopping distance and cornering suffers on slush covered roads compared to the Prime when it had snows.

 

The ID.4 should do better with its weight distribution.