Volt 2.0: Ruess "It will leap-frog... the competition"

Discussion in 'GM Hybrids and EVs' started by Jeff N, Oct 1, 2014.

  1. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Canada is in North America and that is just the northern part of America...
     
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  2. stephane

    stephane Prius v owner

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    Part of United State of America no it stop at your border but America dont finish there you guy are only part of it :ROFLMAO:... Canada in fact is the largest country in Amercia. Time to learn america dont stop at you border my friendly neibought Americas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :D
     
  3. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Yup, hence the grin.

    Actually it was stated as “Made in America” – sans “North”. Technically could be Bolivian, Nicaraguan, etc.


    Strange accepted exclusionary international usage for sure, but the phrase “Made is Amercia” is known worldwide practically as made in the United States. Google the term and see what flags and sites show up. Tell someone overseas one is an American when asked and chances are they assume only one country…

    AFAIK the Volt is manufactured in Detroit. So very close to Canada, but still in the United States. If one has a preference for purchasing things technically American or technically from the U.S., that’s great! It's just rare that a Canadian or United States citizen would also have an adoration for all things technically American.

    And if one is going to be technical, it's time to learn that French Canadians are also Latin Americans… :)

    Thought you guys and John could enjoy a quick distraction/break.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    With NAFTA.

    The new Volt has increased its percentage of American content. Which I think still refers to the US in regards to cars.
     
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  5. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    Volt (was) to "leap-frog" the competition which includes the entire Prius line, as well as the Leaf and Tesla.Classic example of the Volt and GM falling flat on their face.Do not ask GM or Chevy - totally clueless.

    DBCassidy
     
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Tesla has done an outstanding job with S and X. Stage 1 = mission accomplished.

    Tesla has embarked upon the challenge of delivering an affordable choice now. Stage 2 = off to a great start.

    GM attempted to deliver an affordable choice, able to "leap frog the competition" by achieving a mainstream sales rate by the end of the 2nd year. Remember, GM had even announced the ability to ramp production all the up to 120,000 if demand called for it within the 3rd year? That just plain didn't happen. Fine. Whatever. We move on to gen-2 instead. After all, we were told to be patient. This next Volt would surpass the popularity of the gen-2 Prius. So, we waited. The time has arrived. It is available. Sincerely, what should we expect now?

    I truly don't understand how the market could be saturated if the point was to use this technology to phase out the production of traditional vehicles. True, GM makes you wonder if all will be invested in Bolt now to compete directly with Tesla, in the process leaving Volt as a highly regarded niche... kind of like the plug-in version of a Camaro. No one has been willing to address that either. It gives the impression of that being an undesired outcome. But the reality is, only so many tax-credits are available and time to react is limited.

    GM could regard EV as the only reasonable next step. They tried Volt. It obviously works. But that approach didn't result in mainstream sales. Since that is what Toyota also seeks, it is reasonable to continue to ask what was learned from Volt. Why the thought that there could be a saturated market?

    Prime will be offering less EV range, but the EV power will be increased considerably. The smaller battery-pack keeps costs down, while still covering the needs of a number of potential buyers. It also establishes a base to build up. It doesn't sacrifice HV efficiency either.
     
  7. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    I don't think anyone knows exactly how things will evolve but larger battery BEVs seem to have attracted a lot of interest so from GM's perspective Bolt EV should have a part of that market. Likewise, as I've suggested, the Volt may grow into a strong role as a transitional vehicle between the non-plug and the BEV world. I think they are in as good a position as they can be with vehicle placement.

    I think it would benefit them to be seen as helping to seed the initial interstate DC charging infrastructure. Perhaps they should do a Cruze hybrid and Cruze hybrid plugin with a 9.2 kWh pack.
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Would be interesting marketing research with the upcoming 1.6L diesel.
     
  9. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Childhood stories. They are supposed to teach us about life. Some don't learn the lesson though. I think we are watching "the tortoise and the hare" story play out in the automotive world.

    GM has exhibited much of that same behavior about getting to market sooner and racing well ahead.

    Toyota has been taking its time, at a pace so slow it gets mocked every step of the way... yet always paying attention and very carefully planning ahead before taking any action.

    Years later, we likely will see that Toyota has been quietly preparing to win. After all, the work to refine battery chemistry, motor efficiency, control software, and cabin-comfort technology will be beneficial to any plug-in vehicle. Meanwhile, production of the cells for the packs would have continued to get optimized.

    So, when the time comes, we very well could see that GM already ran out of tax-credits and Toyota is taking advantage of the full amount still available to them and is very well positioned to deliver high-volume during the phase-out stage.
     
    #709 john1701a, Apr 19, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  10. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I assume this is a reference to GM. What is the lesson they did not learn? I have no clue as to what that lesson actually is while you assume it is obvious to everyone who reads your postings. I realize I am repeating a previously unanswered question of the same topic, but I am truly curious. What is it?
     
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  11. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    Like pissing off dedicated EV1 owners when their beloved cars get CRUSHED by GM.

    Oh, lets not forget the ignition switch fiasco with the injuries and worst, the preventable deaths that have occurred.

    Lets' start with the above.

    DBCassidy
     
  12. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Yes, good example. GM sucked then. Are they doing the same now?
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Hopefully not.

    Sadly, the "over-promise under-deliver" problem happened several times after that.
     
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  14. stephane

    stephane Prius v owner

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    I think every manufacturer got problem Toyota to Pay $1.2B for Hiding Deadly ‘Unintended Acceleration’ - ABC News

    Even Toyota got a huge one who end up in innocent been kill here is a quote
    Toyota “put sales over safety and profit over principle,” according to FBI Assistant Director George Venizelos.

    “The disregard Toyota had for the safety of the public is outrageous,” Venizelos said. “Not only did Toyota fail to recall cars with problem parts, they continued to manufacture new cars with the same parts they already knew were deadly. When media reports arose of Toyota hiding defects, they emphatically denied what they knew was true, assuring consumers that their cars were safe and reliable… More than speeding cars or a major fine, the ultimate tragedy has been the unwitting consumers who died behind the wheel of Toyota vehicles.”
     
  15. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    So it's GM spin being the GM fault, not anything to do with the Volt itself?
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Setting of false expectations has consequences. GM created challenges for itself that could have been avoided.

    It's not rocket science. It's simply business. Understanding how accounting, economics, and marketing interact isn't easy, but it is necessary. Fortunately, you do sometimes get lucky and notice a pattern. It this case, the expectations played a major role.

    That put Volt in an awkward position right out the gate. Not everything that had been anticipated was actually what got delivered.

    Why does GM set expectations that could present major problems later if the challenge to deliver becomes too great? Notice how certain announcements stand out? There's almost no detail, yet lots of praise is given anyway for somehow overcoming a problem no other automaker could. That spotlight is the first sign the risk may be too much.

    Attempting to apply the same logic to Prime, what do we see? The highest requested upgrade was more EV power. Next was more EV range. Since neither had any set target, reaching the goal was much easier. In other words, it was just like any other generational change. People simply expect the successor to be improved. That's it.
     
    #716 john1701a, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
  17. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    OK-no major disagreements there but not complete agreement either. GM public claims and marketing approaches were clumsy. But in all fairness, Toyota announcing the PiP will be rolled out nationwide and then instead stopping production early shows that Toyota can make occasional head scratchers as well.

    But at the end of the day, it is the vehicle itself that matters, not the PR. Toyota's strength by far is the confidence the car you get will perform as claimed and reliably. GM's weakness is the long shadow of quick decay and bungled cars. I know of extraordinarily few car buyers of PHEVs or hybrids who do not factor maker reputation into their decision. Likewise, those new technology car buyers consider commercials to be irrelevant to buying any hybrid, PHEV, or BEV. No commercial or PR claims provides the information actually needed to select vehicles in these categories.

    To me that is the Volt hurdle and the Prius magic. The initial Volt sluggish sales make perfect sense when GM's past performance is taken into account. (If Toyota came out with a Volt equivalent at the same time, it would have been a far different story.) Volt and Bolt success can only occur as long life reliability and quality is proven. That may be happening. I would like more data. Likewise, Toyota major PHEV success can only occur as long as Toyota makes an equivalent performing vehicle. I have no doubt the Prime will encompass first rate Toyota quality. The rub is the performance disparity of what GM and Tesla are providing is not matched by Toyota. Yet Toyota is capable of making an excellently competing vehicle if they wanted. I understand your points about engaging the masses but the FEV myopia ensures Toyota is abandoning a huge market of early adopters who can never consider FEVs...now lining up at Tesla's doorstep.
     
    #717 FL_Prius_Driver, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Hydrogen FCEVs might come to be, but that won't kill the plug in segment which is being established now. The first ICE automobiles weren't for the masses, but their presence helped to grow the demand for an automobile the masses could afford.
     
  19. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    OR, look at from this direction: the "living wills:" granted to GM (and Chrysler), would not be possible with out the U.S. taxpayer. So, any "leap=frogging" - give thanks and appreciation to us.

    DBCassidy
     
  20. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I just came across a post today from Volt supporter complaining about it NOT being available.

    Would you please confirm your source.

    Thanks.
     
    #720 john1701a, May 2, 2016
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
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