VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Jeff N, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. Dion Kraft

    Dion Kraft Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    268
    79
    1
    Location:
    Washington, UT
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Yes your right about this lack of transparency but its the game VW plays best and will probably continue to finagle their way for as cheap a settlement their bean counters have pre-calculated. I don't know if any bombshells will come up but you never know. If it wasn't so funny this would be a soap opera in the making....I guess we will stay tuned...
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,309
    43,206
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    if ken feinberg resigns, that will tell us everything we need to know.
     
    Dion Kraft likes this.
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    17,224
    8,299
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The 40X number was also the highest measured. The average is 6 to 7 times.
    Car emissions have steadily been getting better since 1972. The cars Hill asked about were extremely filthy by today's standards, and they weren't dirty diesels. Today, it is taken for granted just how clean new car emissions are. The US is moving to Tier 3 emission regulations, but getting 10+ year old cars and ones with faulty or bypassed emission controls off the road would probably do more to further improve the air quality.

    I don't see a reason why diesels couldn't catch up to gasoline cars in emission reduction. Many already do. Those actually responsible at VW for the cheater diesels won't see justice, but for the US, the actual pollution from the cheat is small compared to all the other pollution sources out there. VW the company has to punished, but imposing a more stringent fleet emission limit on them, which will force them to push their plug ins, hybrids, and cleaner cars, for some period of time, may be a more productive way of repairing the damage caused by the cheaters than forcing them to be fixed those cars.

    There still needs to be a huge fine, and compensation for those that bought the cheaters, specially if state or other actions make reselling the car difficult.
     
    wxman and bwilson4web like this.
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    24,788
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    We'll have to agree to disagree on the remedy but that is what forums like this are good for:
    The perfect fine would be to buy-back the cheat diesels. Back of envelope:
    • 500,000 * $20,000 ~= $10,000,000,000 or $10 B, paid to the cheat diesel buyers
      • Either cash or a sales-boosted trade-in credit by VW for their products
    • cheat diesels get crushed or 'clunkered' - if good enough for the EV1, good enough for the cheats
      • I'm OK with giving them the 'clunker' treatment and salvage the rest
      • A YouTube Jetta crushing would be the perfect answer to 'Meet the Volkswagens'
    Personally I don't want government employees telling a company, even VW, how they should make their future product mix. The owners of the company should make that decision. Forcing a future product mix as a 'punishment' breeds resentment and we don't need VW 'getting even' by making the mandated cars as cheaply and short-lived as possible.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #964 bwilson4web, Dec 20, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
    Stevevee and GrumpyCabbie like this.
  5. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    4,319
    1,526
    0
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    I certainly know you are taking the best actions in the right direction, so my comments are general and not directed at posters doing the right things.

    I view the real issue as being independent of the amount of excess from the VW deceptions. It is a short term side issue to discuss NOx pollution effects when the real issue is corporate determination to find or create both illegal and legal means to maintain pollution allowances.
     
    hill and Trollbait like this.
  6. Munpot42

    Munpot42 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    1,391
    541
    0
    Location:
    Santa Monica, Ca. 90405
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    +1
     
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    17,524
    6,802
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Bob - this English subtitled video isn't geared specifically at the European ICE, nor VW's diesel - but fantasizes a young person who has only known ev driving - and now someone's trying to convince her to do ICE - I mostly liked the subtle dinosaur key chain;


    .
     
  8. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    4,319
    1,526
    0
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    That was good. I really like the ending where the salesman recommends turning off the car indoors so you don't die.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,309
    43,206
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    that was funny. i jumped when she squirted herself, my eyes still sting.:p
     
  10. Dion Kraft

    Dion Kraft Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    268
    79
    1
    Location:
    Washington, UT
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The interior of the car would have stunk of diesel as the shoes on the floor mats and on the clothes don't easily dissipate...oh I forgot..its a commercial ..my bad!
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    24,788
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
  12. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    4,294
    2,320
    33
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Nobody really cares about "this" smog issue...except those who have lost market price/value on their vehicles. Most people in fact hate all the smog crap installed. VW's real problem is they don't put out a reliable, low TCO product...including their gassers.
     
    #972 frodoz737, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
  13. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    3,002
    478
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Is what VW did, that much different from Toyota, by manipulating the speedometer to be off by 5%, when the OBD2 reports a speed within 1% of the correct value?
     
  14. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    4,294
    2,320
    33
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    They all do stuff, VW just got caught...this time.
     
  15. finman

    finman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    1,287
    108
    0
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    Vehicle:
    2014 Nissan LEAF
    Ya might want to ask these millions of people if VW did wrong:

    Air Pollution Is Responsible For 3.3 Million Deaths Every Year

    Let's see...times 8 years or so of deceit...that's a big number.

    It is sad that most ALL corps see are $$$.

    How do fewer customers get them more dollars? That's the part I don't get.
     
    GrumpyCabbie likes this.
  16. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    4,294
    2,320
    33
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Oregon...Leaf...got it.
     
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    24,788
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Not mine but then I use oversize tires that give true speed and distance. Only the OBD is off by 6%.

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    3,002
    478
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    That confirms the mismatch.
     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    24,788
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    The OBD being off is 'less bad' than the others.

    Bob Wilson
     
  20. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    3,002
    478
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Why should it be off? It takes a deliberate effort to modify the data that comes from the sensors, that go to the speedometer.
     
Loading...