VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Jeff N, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    apparently not, judging from they're actions over the last 10 years. perhaps the courts will be different.
     
  2. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    They just use Perri-air:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Fallout: Milan’s new diesel ban to cause ripple effect | opportunity:energy

    The city of Milan is getting set for a progressive ban on diesel cars, due to start as early as January 2019. The bold move was announced a few days ago by Milan’s mayor Giuseppe Sala at the annual Energy Festival in Rome. “It will be a delicate transition, but we think it’s time to do it”, said Sala.

    . . . Political pressure on diesel cars has been mounting for some time, particularly following Volkswagen’s Dieselgate scandal. Further, Milan has a history of strong environmental policies and has already been implementing increasingly strict anti-pollution measures on vehicle traffic for a number of years. Most notably, a “congestion charge” scheme very similar to the one implemented in London, called Area C, is already in place for the historical town centre. The new scheme will however encompass a wider area, to include the whole of the city.
    . . .

    Stupid Dieselgate: The Fix Is In: We Test Both Fixed and Cheater VW TDI Diesels | Feature | Car and Driver

    At the proving grounds, we ran a modified version of our typical acceleration test, first with the new software and then again after the car had been reverted back to its “dirty” code by two Volkswagen technicians. (Although they used a laptop plugged into the OBD II port, they stressed that VW dealers and others authorized to upload the new software would use a system that will not allow a car to be reverted to any earlier code.) In both zero-to-60 and quarter-mile tests, we recorded identical results: 9.3 seconds and 17.2 seconds at 82 miles per hour. Extra test equipment in the back seat and a passenger aboard mean these numbers cannot be compared with other C/D test numbers, nor should they be considered absolute. But the comparative fact stands: We found no notable performance differences between the car with its original dirty software and the same car after the fix.

    The filler neck for the Passat’s DEF tank is located in the trunk, with the tank extending out of sight such that we were unable to accurately assess DEF consumption during testing. Nor were we able to do much fuel-economy analysis, although according to the Passat’s onboard trip computer there was no significant change during steady-speed cruising after we switched software.


    Bob Wilson
     
    #1883 bwilson4web, Jun 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  4. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what a shame.
     
  6. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    What did you expect?

    They will probably either drill holes in the block or crush them, probably more polluting have such a large number of new cars sit, and get crushed.

    Now if they would leave them alone and let folks buy the gliders under the requirement they convert to EV, ah well

    Such a destructive waste
     
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  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Waste, yes, but that happened when Bosch wrote the software to optionally disable diesel emissions controllers.

    I agree the cars could be converted but they would still have to be EPA and crash tested. When I was investigating a propane conversion kit for our Prius, I learned the EPA testing alone would be ~$250,000 . . . for one car.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Hopefully, my '09 TDI is out there somewhere, but I think the early ones went to the crusher.
     
  9. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    But you can attach a 500lb roof rack, hot rod it, change the suspension, change the rims, change the bumpers and it’s fine
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    We could have allowed the cars to be exported to countries in which the cheaters would have met the local emission regulations.
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Ship them back to Germany and let VW take the credit, not the USA. Just think. 300,000 USA rejected, used cars sold by VW and Germany to 3d world countries. For example Cuba, Russia, N. Korea, Venezuela, and Ecuador. Turkey and Iran could use some too.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1891 bwilson4web, Jun 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    you could even take the hybrid system out and put an old dirty smoke belching diesel engine in it - & that's okay too.
    .
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Not in Pennsylvania. The replacement engine has to be the same model year or newer as the car.
     
  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    How does that work for Amish buggies .... maybe the horses have to be related
    ;)
    .
     
  15. Fred_H

    Fred_H Misoversimplifier

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    VW has been discretely selling the returned fraudulent Diesels to VW shops in the US in private auctions. The VW shops rebuild the emissions systems in accordance with the EPA approved procedures. The shops then sell the retrofitted fraudulent Diesels at a profit.

    VW planned to build and operate special retrofitting facilities itself near the lots, but I haven't yet heard if if anything has become of that.

    I would guess that the fraudulent VW Diesels seen at the salvage yard were also bought at such an auction, but the buyer decided that he could make more profit by selling the used parts than by retrofitting.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Some of those fixed VWs are actually being sold at VW dealers.

    The crushed cars are likely new ones without a SCR system to begin with, and deemed to costly to fix vs the expected return, or ones VW had to buy back from people that were too used in mileage or age to bother fixing.
     
  17. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    From what I’ve been told this

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/rivian-automotives-future-factory-site-full-volkswagens-dirty-diesels-drone-video/amp/

    Hasn’t changed much since 2016 but it does fund Rivian I guess
     
  18. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    So here's what gets fixed of the 2.0 liters, as far as I'm aware:

    Gen 1 (2009-2014 Jetta/Golf/Audi A3/Beetle, no SCR system), both manual and DSG
    Gen 2 (2012-2014 Passat, has SCR system), DSG only (manual has no fix available)
    Gen 3 (all 2015s, has SCR system), both manual and DSG

    So, it's literally everything that isn't a 2012-2014 manual transmission Passat (which they barely sold any of).
     
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  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Without SCR, how do they accomplish the NOx reduction?

    Are they cycling a rich diesel mixture to condition the catalytic converter?

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1899 bwilson4web, Jul 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  20. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Basically yes - they trap NOx in lean conditions, then go to rich conditions periodically to release the NOx and break it down.

    They just didn't bother actually doing that all the time before, whereas now they do.
     
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