Wake-up call for Detroit

I don't think Detroit is ignoring gas prices at all. SUV and large pickup sales are down markedly. Detroit is responding with rebates and financing deals that are rising faster than gas prices. Today's newspaper had over $6k in financing and rebates on a $34K Durango.

 

Check out the story that was written in the same issue. it talks about Toyota's ability to make money. Toyota has made 18 billion off the US on their way to a 10 billion profit last year. that is more than double the combined earnings of Ford and GM.

On paper, Toyota is the most valuable automaker in the world. and lets face it, they are there because they worked hard and deserve to be there.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/insiders/0405/.../c01-150580.htm

 

It seems like a replay of the 70s oil crisis.

 

They also said the cost of the crude is up because they have to pay people more to work in "you bet your life" areas. Figured $10/barrel was directly related to the oil being in unstable/dangerous areas.

 

i think the Big 3 are pracitcing a little bit of wishful thinking
especially when they claim that the American public will not
substantially change their automobile purchasing habits until gas
reaches $4 a gallon.

I wonder what their thoughts would have been if say there were
200,000 Priuses available for sale in the US this year instead of a
measly 50,000?

I may be wrong, but I am betting that if Toyota did have 200,000
Priuses and a marketing campaign, they would have had no
problem selling the cars. As it is, it appears that they could have
sold 100,000 easily without an add campaign, despite the several
negative articles in the media trying to derail the Prius movement.

 

Is is similar but for different reasons. That embargo almost killed the American muscle car and it opened wide the doors of the US car market for Toyota. Toyota builds SUVs almost as large as those produced by the American Car Makers, but they've also made an effort to develop smaller and more fuel-efficient cars, so they have a range of products to fall back on when things like these happen.

 

almost killed the Detroit muscle car business??

i dont see much evidence of that. in fact the oil embargo didnt do a thing to
the big 3. It was CAFE that did that and the revocation of that law is the
reason we are in the predicament we are in now.

 

Not really. Look at the Chevrolet Corvette. Back in the 70's, you would be lucky to get 10 to 12 mpg out of one on the highway. Now, they are rated at 28 mpg, and make more power.

The Dodge Ram Hemi is rated at 14 city, and 18 highway. These vehciles would be lucky to get 12 mpg back in the 70's. I have a 3/4 ton diesel truck that easily gets into the mid 20's with frugal driving.

Every vehicle on the market today, gets better fuel mileage than anything did back in the 70's. Gasoline cars now, meet or beat diesels from back then.

The reality is, that people are used to the current numbers, and are slapping the old "gas hog" label on vehicles that would have been heralded for getting the same numbers a couple of decades ago. I'm not stating that the status quo should be left to ride by any means, just that some thinking has to be put into the progress that has been made over time. The lack of CAFE rules isn't going to have a long term effect on fuel economy ratings. The free market itself is going to continue to seek improvement. Toyota and Honda are at the forefront of the next step in automobile evolution - the rest of the market MUST follow suit or die. I'm sure we all know how much those CEO's like to pocket those million dollar bonuses. They'll follow right along - it just may not be in the exact footprints.

 

Corvette 28 mpg???

hmm, hard to believe...

i wonder what percentage of THEIR EPA they actually
get.

 

Well, if they are driven hard, not even close.

Corvettes can and do get the figures when they are driven conservatively. GM has this unloved 1 to 4 shift guide that pushes the shift lever over to the 4th position when you shift at light throttle. 6th gear is also a .4:1 overdrive, IIRC.

 

.4 to 1 ??

wow now that is extreme!

 

Yeh...they need to give away the gas hogs since people can't afford to operate them anymore...and you call that Detroit is aware of gas prices???

If Detroit were really concerned about MPG they would have been the first to bring a hybrid to the table...Ford is buying Toyota's hybrid technology since they don't have time to get their own system on-board...but at least they are getting on-board...however... instead of building the same old big bad gas hogs and the public following without question... :cussing:

lets ALL get serious about conservation and reduce our demand for foreign oil and help bring our troops home...it will only get worse as other nations..like CHINA who is depending more and more on OIL...LETS WAKE UP & support the auto manufacturers :mrgreen: (TOYOTA & HONDA) that are bringing GREAT MPG to the market place!!!!!.

 

My 70s oil crisis comment was geared toward the way the big three didn't have much in the way of econo cars, but the Japanese did. Nowadays, the big three do have some small cars, and the Japanese do have some large cars, but if there was a rush for small cars in the coming months/years, I believe the number & variety of Japanese offerings in small cars (fuel efficient, I mean) is better than America's.

 

I've noticed that recent TOYOTA TV commercials now state the GREAT MPG that their cars can achieve...the big 3 always state how much HP they have. So the big 3 continue down the same old market path which will lead to a dead end.

A true solution to our energy crisis is for everyone to downsize there autos to fuel efficient ones...and scrap our big bad gas hogs....and to become a revolution in efficiency in everything we do.

The big 3 are fueling our upward gas pricing by selling gas hogs...lets see if they can bring it down. but this will only occur if the public does their part and refuse to buy the big stuff.

If gas prices continue to rise then the public will start dumping the gas hogs...which we are starting to see in the used car lots as well as huge discounts from the big 3.

The dead end solution is giving a gas hog away...this does not solve the problem...you just give it to someone else.

 

Not really. Any CVT bottoms out at about .5 to 1. Unfortunately, they also top out at about 2:1 on the low end of the ratio spread. It enables the automakers to use some very short final drive ratios, making for awesome throttle response in city traffic, while still getting superior fuel economy on the highway. With a manual tranny, the stepped gears gives the maker a bit more leeway. However, they need to have an engine capable of powering the vehicle through such a steep gear ratio. Even the 350 V8 used in the 'Vette, Camaro, and Firebird (the other two that have the same 1-4 shift mechanism), requires a downshift to get anything remotely resembling acceleration to pass slower traffic.

 

Wolfman:
no matter how they do it, i think its ludicrous to give them any kind of credit when talking about economy. just because they are better now than they were 30 years ago means diddly squat in my book. the old saying goes "nothing from nothing leaves nothing" you said it yourself that the improvement mostly came about from gear manipulation and not any real effort to reduce our comsumption of oil. As for your corvette example, you should look at the overall EPA rating for the beast. imho, they score an F for advancement. They have had 30 years and the results would have any normal person hired to improve economy fired. it is obvious that economy was never part of the corvette's goal.