Wal-Mart- Yes or No?

We have a Wal-Mart poll, about two months old. It's probably back about 15-20 pages in FHOP.

 

Local merchants first. On-line second. Target if I have to go big box chain but try to stay away from it. I really like to shop at local shops. Yes, I do pay a little more, but I've been stationed around this country and every town/city I live in, the downtown area is a wreck simply because of WalMart and Americans quest for low, low prices. I like to see a vibrant downtown area with the small coffee shop and cool, trendy restaurants with local merchants up and down main street. I think we all want to see that. So on principle alone, I will never shop in a WalMart. There is one in our town, but it's not even a shopping possiblity.

 

I venture into Walmart about 3 times a year, tops. Ordinarily, I avoid it like the plague, but there are a few things that I can only find there (a certain brand of coffee, Purity Maple Nut Ice Cream...) It's not that I dislike it on any "social injustice" grounds, I just have an aversion to cranky, screaming, unruly OPKs (Other People's Kids) and their oblivious parents and parking lots that are hazardous to my car.

 

I used to have the attitude along the lines of, "I shouldn't shop at Walmart (because of social justice issues), but I do it so little, that it doesn't really matter."

One day I was going in there to see if they had something for cheap, and it occured to me that, since I shop there so rarely, there was no further justification for me to shop there; I was saving very little money (since I was spending so little there). It was such a moment of clarity that I just walked out and never have been back. Now, if I feel the itch to go to one of those types of stores, I just go to Target (which is really comparably priced to Walmart). Which actually leads me to wonder. . . is Target maybe just as bad as Walmart, but it doesn't get the same attention just because it's not as big? Hmmm. . . .

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 13 2006, 07:50 PM) [snapback]254993[/snapback]</div>

I will not shop at Walmart. There's nothing I could buy there and nowhere else, with the internet available. I shop: Locally-owned first, Target et. al. second, and internet third. I own stock in Target. I have calculated, roughly, that I get one penny in dividends for every twenty-five million dollars spent there. I bought it because it's headquartered in Minneapolis, and so was a "local" company when I lived in Fargo. I own 3M stock for the same reason. I would not drive a block out of my way to shop at Target as opposed to another store. And I always vote my shares in favor of social justice proposals on the annual elections.

I strongly suspect that all large chain stores pay lousy wages and provide dead-end jobs. But the virulence of Walmart's union-busting efforts sets it apart.

 

Whats wrong with wal-mart?

Yes they force the mom & pop stores to lower prices or go out of business. Yes they pay their employees like crap.. its the new american way!! Plus if they donot have somthing Im looking for I talk to a mgr and say hey Idreally like to see that product sold here it would ease my shopping trips to one location.. Poof its there the next time I shop.. I like wal-mart & target, now k-mart merged with sears and has gone to crap...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ May 14 2006, 07:20 AM) [snapback]255185[/snapback]</div>

You should be very proud of yourself, Priusguy04, you are a real smart shopper and clearly a patriot - American way and all.

In my small hometown in Indiana they built a Wal-mart several years back. The day before they opened the manager of the store took the floor staff (dressed in their smart red vests) over to the parking lot of the local K-Mart, which is about 1/3 of amile away. They stood in the parking lot holding hands, chanting some anti K-Mart cheer and then turned their backs on the K-Mart to face Wal-mart and walked back to their new "home". Sounded something like a religious ritual, maybe instead of praying facing east the employees are required to pray facing the nearest Wal-mart.

FYI, the police have been called to that store on more than one occassion to break up fights - among the employees who are floating haymakers on the sales floor, during retail hours no less.

And yes, they have driven the mom and pop stores out of town. So much so that they are now building a mega-center right next door to their original store. The cancer clearly has metastisized.

A high quality establishment all the way around.

Never stepped foot in the place, never will.

 

Out of personal experience I've seen what a Wally World can do to small towns. If they would stay in larger towns where there is formidable competition that's one thing. But WM comes to small towns that can't afford to keep up and small BETTER stores (with customer service and stock) wither and die.

To add insult to injury they stock crap from foreign countries when all along they wave the American flag like everything was made here.

Sorry...the only way I might go in is if there was nothing else for miles (see above) or if I was bleeding profusely and needed a way to stop it.

WM can go to corporate hell.

 

I try not to give W-mart any business. I have to use Sam's Club for gas, bulk items, and misc. items. Sorry, I'm not wealthy enough to not watch price. I do hate W-mart in general having worked in 1 for a miserable 3 mos. about 17 yrs. ago.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(seeh2o @ May 14 2006, 02:14 PM) [snapback]255252[/snapback]</div>

WOW!! sounds like a store full of nuts, Ive never heard of such practices here they just open a store & have a grand opening.... I guess if that happened here we would not shop at that one store sounds like poor management staff..

Wal-Mart did try and open a store in Oviedo Fl. the residents & city leaders voted NO and closed the doors. Wal mart then built a store just out side the city limits...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 13 2006, 06:50 PM) [snapback]254904[/snapback]</div>

Wow, no problem knowing your point of view on Wal-Mart. Worst corporation. They never seem to have a problem hiring or getting shoppers. Or do you just chalk that up to ignorant sheeple.

 

The reason the Walmarts of the world exist is because of greedy mom and pop shops. Simple as that. I remember growing up in a small town in CT that had pretty much nothing but mom and pop shops, and everytime we needed something, it was ALWAYS more expensive, and the service was rarely ever better than the bigger stores outside of town. Of course, it also didn't help much seeing the owner of the local hardware store in a new Caddy every two years or so...

Sweatshops in Asia, or greedy mom and pop shops that claim "service"? Choose where your dollar goes.

I personally don't like walmart because it seems like it's always crammed and people are in a frenzy buying 5 gallon drums of pickles, or something of the sort. IMO, life's too short to sit around and tactically re-arrange your shopping around walmart, I'm not going to drive the extra 3 miles to save .50 on something. Unless I get the feeling the price difference is beyond a certain reasonable threshold, I get whatever I need at the closest place, or on my way to someplace or other...

 

Criticism of WMT is common. Since they are large, they getted blamed for even larger systemic problems. Many companies, actually all companies, have negative environmental and social impacts. Companies can get rid of some of these impacts and make more money. But most of these impacts cannot be eliminated. To do so would be corporate suicide. The enemy is not so much WMT as the economic and political systems that compel firms to damage the environmental and social realms. WMT and other firms should act more responsibly when they can. At the same time, we must work to change the systems that set the rules of the game for WMT and all firms.

Companies are designed to put profits ahead of all else. Getting mad a WMT or any firm for not putting workers, the environment, children, etc ahead of profits would be like throwing your dirty laundry in the back seat of your Prius, then coming back an hour later and getting mad at the car because it didn't wash your cloths. The car isn't designed to do that. Nor is the firm designed to balance profits with other goals. If we want firms to act differently, we must give them different incentives.

The major problem is not holding firms fully responsible for negative impacts. In a competitive market, firms cannot mitigage impacts and remain in business.

I advise WMT and other firms on corporate responsibility and system change. I just published an article on system change and WMT. For those interested, it can be downloaded at: www.globalsystemchange.com

 

http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/Content?oid=oid%3A46557

Garvin, K., & K. Munger (26 January 2006 CE). Sacramento On Empty. Sacramento News and Review.

An article about Sacramento, California, in 2036 CE. Wal Mart, Target and other stores have disappeared because their "warehouses" were rolling trucks dependent on oil. "Once oil went above $200 a barrel, food became the major expense for most households. Without oil, there were no pesticides, no fancy fertilizers, no central distribution system, and no trucks pulling up at Safeway and Albertsons. Even Wal-Mart shelves emptied in a hurry, and they were never restocked."

Pro or con Wal Mart, Wal Mart is fueling its own demise.

 

I have to do some shopping for my Mother's crap at Walmart but I will not spend my money there. I also prefer to go in the early morning because of the type of individuals WM tends to draw. I would rather pay Target a few cents extra at least they give back to the community. mostly I stick to the smaller, non-union stores.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 14 2006, 08:24 PM) [snapback]255437[/snapback]</div>

Michael,

Thanks for your feedback on my article. It covers a lot more than what I said in the post above. You say WMT has flouted the rules, but I think they've actually done a better job of playing by the rules than anyone else. That's why they're perhaps the most successful corporation ever. The rules say put profits above all else. That's what they did better than anyone. They used their size to force down costs which hurt suppliers, communities, labor and other stakeholders, but helped customers by lowering prices. It may have also hurt customers by sending their jobs oversees.

We should expect firms to do the right thing when they can. WMT and other firms can act more responsibly. The work I've been doing for many years shows that doing so can enhance profitability (ie: increased reputation, brand value, efficiency, morale, productivity, etc). however, firms can only act more responsibly up to a point. If they act too responsibly they'll go out of business. This is a system problem.

I'm not saying firms shouldn't be pushed to improve. They should be. This works. I've seen it. But 80% of the problem is systems that force firms to act irresponsibly. Unfortunately this gets close to 0% of the attention. The far more effective approach is to continue pushing firms to improve AND push for system change.

Re the NY Times oped, overall I think it's a massive positive that WMT will sell organic. It may hurt local producers, but that's happening anyway. The huge problems in agriculture come from factory farming (GMOs, pesticide run off, fertilizer driven algae blooms, top soil erosion and salination, aquifer depletion, etc). WMT can put more pressure than probably anyone on factory farms to address these issues. And I mean really address, not give lipservice, which is what usually happens.

I believe they will not seek to water down the organic standard, as the oped discusses. I've overseen the analysis of more than 2,000 corporate sustainability strategies for many years. I can say WMT is implementing the most aggressive sustainability strategy ever. They're number one in large part because they great at strategy execution. Imagine what would happen if they applied this skill to doing the right thing!

I realize there are many issues that are too big for WMT to address, like limits to growth, externalities, better measures of social-well being than GNP, the discount rate, campaign finance (ie: bribery), advertising driving compulsive behavior by making people feel empty, etc. These are the issues for our generation to address. I think we can do it. Much more is said about this on: www.globalsystemchange.com

All the best, Frank