Wal-Mart's Roadmap to Sustainability

This is such a mixed bag.

Greenwashing or even truely green pratices by corporate superstars are too easily undermined by unethical business practices in other sectors. So it should be agreeable that what they are doing is a good thing and they should be praised for it simply because they could choose not to do anything at all. I realize it is simply good business to accept climate change policies but the fact remains that they could cimply choose to ignore the green movement, at least for awhile longer.

 

A mixed bag indeed.

Wal-mart could be seen at some levels as among the greenest corporations in the world, if it implements the projects as 'advertised.'

I spoke with someone who had recently attended a conference on corporate responsibility and this topic was of course part of the discussion. It turns out that oftentimes, and this is probably one of those times, the 'top five' corporations in one area, like environment, might be in the 'bottom five' on, say, women's rights or family-friendly or equitable pay or whatever.

That said, there is benefit to the environment when a big corp makes a big move in the right direction, and whether this is driven by social responsibility (not likely) or profit motive (no we are getting somewhere) means little if the effects are beneficial.

I still will not darken the door of a WalMart.

Jim

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jimnjo @ Mar 5 2007, 07:19 AM) [snapback]400234[/snapback]</div>

I love WalMart and wish them the best of luck in taking over the retail world. Great article in todays WSJ on WalMart in Mexico and Latin America. And the sight of WalMart going green is AMAZING. What will the leftists be left with when WalMart is the "prototypical" green corporation?

I support your decision not to shop WalMart - but tell me why is it a "mixed bag"? Do you shop Costco, or Target, or BJ's or Home Depot? And if you do, why? Me, i go anywhere I can save a few $'s. Best of luck.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 5 2007, 04:47 AM) [snapback]400242[/snapback]</div>

I will not shop there simply because there are better places to shop in my area that will allow my money to stay in my area for a longer period of time. I support the mom and pop shops when I can for those reasons. Wal-Mart has some pretty terrible business practices and I do not see how patronizing them does us any good at all.

The High Cost of Low Price sheds some light on their ethical base even when viewed through skeptical glasses. It's kind of hard to hide the really bad stuff.

I assume you are fishing for a response though since you cannot be that uninformed concerning low cost pricing and the problems associated with it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 5 2007, 08:47 AM) [snapback]400242[/snapback]</div>

The mixed bag relates to the mixture of 'good' and 'bad' about WalMart...and actually about any corporation for that matter.

My attitude about WalMart started when I lived in the Ozarks, not far north of the Arkansas beginnings. It was early years of Walmart but their predatory style was already kicking in; they would place themselves between a couple small communities, within driving distance of almost no one; the local stores were not able to compette with the price points, and the idea of competing on different terms (still a difficult thing, but the best strategy IMHO) was something they simply did not think of.

I dislike a few things about all of the big box stores (besides the obvious one of driving the local economy into the big box's till).

They have huge parking lots...in part because they are placed where most need to drive..covering the countryside that was once fields or woods.

They tend toward predatory practices, a concept I might have difficulty defining but essentially means - they will do most anything to drive out their nearest competitors. It can be argued, of course, that any free market-driven operation is predatory. I believe these stores often go the extra distance...

They drive local dollars out

They give people an illusion of saving money. Here are a couple things that can - and do- happen :
-- they can dictate to their suppliers, so for a couple examples: you might find toothpaste that is in a similar or same size container, costs less, but has less in it. Who looks at and compares the ounces in a tube of toothpaste. They can tell Briggs and Stratton to put a lower grade engine on their lawn mowers. They cost less. They look the same. They don't last as long. In both cases there is little or no bargain.

The convenience of shopping under one roof has much appeal. But how many times do you go in one and leave with *only* the stuff on your list? You may (or may not) save on individual items but I would maintain that a general tendancy is to buy way more stuff than you might otherwise (this is the collective you, not you yourself - in case you don't stray from your list).

I don't go to any of those places you mention...and I will spend more to support a local merchant, who might buy produce from my farm, or provide service or advice on the product I buy, or have a kind word when we meet at some other local merchant, or carry products that are more interesting or different or less mass-appeal than the big store can stock.

All that said, the local mom and pop places are not perfect, they frquently don't offer an better benefits to their employees, and they need to distinguish themselves from the big box if they are to keep afloat.

And when a gian like WalMart does something good - which they arguably are when they take a stand on energy, for example - they can do a LOT. Still won't go there...

I could go on but hey, this is enough for now!

Jim

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jimnjo @ Mar 6 2007, 09:00 AM) [snapback]400822[/snapback]</div>

u just do not like capitalism. why buy toyota - they drive their suppliers to the lowest prices possible too. if you cannot stay to your shopping list is that someone elses fault - or are we in we need to protect people from themselves mode here? tell me, that hammer you buy from your local hardware store - where is it made, could you not buy the same exact hammer at walmart? i understand what you are saying - i just choose to shop at walmart, costco, target, etc whenever i can - obviously i am not alone.

to each his own - the power of capitalism and consumer choice.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 6 2007, 06:22 AM) [snapback]400829[/snapback]</div>

I urge you to watch the movie.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Mar 6 2007, 09:54 AM) [snapback]400840[/snapback]</div>

still trying to catch up on past episodes of "24" bro - the only tv program i watch with regularity.

i honestly love big box stores - i think they are as evolutionary step in capitalism and a potent force for spreading democracy and freedom to the rest of the world at the same time they hold inflation in check, provide a source for employment for millions, and hopefully will become more responsible citizens in the ongoings of human life and progress in the future (witness walmart going green, perhaps building out the largest solar energy generating base, etc).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 6 2007, 07:06 AM) [snapback]400846[/snapback]</div>

I understand why you like them. I just feel that a lot of those reasons are false impressions. The cost us taxpayers more than they are worth in reality. Look into the medical and wages they dish out and the terrible effects they have on local economies or even the towns they have robbed in subsidies. Your idealogy would be great were it truely that way. I often quote David Korten because he has worked in support of these multi-nationals and saw that their effects were not what they appeal to the public to be and he got fed up and quit to write books on the subject and spread the truth.

Whats 24? I don't watch regular tv anymore so I have no clue. lol Any good?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Mar 6 2007, 10:23 AM) [snapback]400860[/snapback]</div>

we agree to disagree on walmart - either way it makes no difference to them.

24 is the best tv series since hill street blues ( i am dating myself) - about a counter terrorism unit fighting evil - each week is one hour of the day (which is this years story line) - this year is Day 6 -- the sixth season - try getting the first season and watching the dvd without commercials - superb series - tons of twists and turns -

you can also get this seasons episodes on amazon.com for $1.99 an episode/hour. you do not have had to watch from day 1 or season 1 to understand or enjoy it.

highly recommend it - it is the only tv series i have watched in years.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 6 2007, 10:22 AM) [snapback]400829[/snapback]</div>

Well, I will admit to some difficulties with capitalism, though since I can't really offer a better alternative I will leave it at that. Is this the line, or am I paraphrasing from something else: capitalism pits man against man. Communism is exactly the opposite.

The hammer may be made in China. If I buy the cheap one. It might pound nails just fine, but I am more likely to look at the 'better' grade of hammer that our hardware sells. It, too might be made overseas. Every time I buy a cheap tool I regret it. Every time I pick up a well made tool I am happy to have spent a little more. And the folks at the hardware store will help me out next time I come in with a tricky plumbing problem.

Maybe I could buy the same hammer at WalMart. But I no longer trust them to have a quality product even if it looks the same. Here is a story of two companies that I have dealt with (their products, that is):

Gilmour makes garden watering stuff, the sprayers and whatnot. They had a big play in WM and needed to keep the account. But WM told them they needed to cheap down. What to do? Fold in Illinois (or maybe Indiana...) and move to China along with many of the rest. Now their formerly good stuff is just cheap crap. No matter where I buy it.

Snapper makes a better-than-average power tool (like lawn mowers, that kind of stuff). They had a small play in WM. They were told to dumb down their product, make it cheaper or lose the account. Options include a lower grade product for WM or move to China. Both offer Snapper the WM account and both compromise their reputation for quality and/or their commitment to their employees (yes, even a capatilist company may have some scruples). Since they are not yet deeply in WM for their sales they simply say, 'take a hike.'

Jim

 

A couple things occured to me on my walk after my last post.

One is this:

I bought a Toyota not because it was cheaper than other vehicles. I bought it, at least in part, because I think it is *better* than many other vehicles. I do not believe they drive their suppliers down to the lowest price. I suspect they keep their quality up by setting standards, determining specs. They probably bid, and they no doubt look at price of the stuff they have speced. But they build a quality car that holds up and they are unlikely to compromise their quality to save a few cents. Or at least they haven't started doning that yet...

The other is this:

I don't make enough money to buy cheap stuff.

 

Personal story. My ex from college got a job at a newly opened WM. She worked night and early morning shift (to accommodate her class schedule . After two years WM hired two Freshman college students, both male, making $1.25 MORE an hour then their supervisor (my ex) They were allowed to work more then part-time (20hours) and thus allowed benefits. My ex was not allowed to work more then 20 hours, although she had time, experience and interest. Reason: she could have gotten pregnant at any time and thus would have leeched benefits of WM. The quote from the store manager was something along the lines of "Well you see, so many women at your age are vulnerable to interruptions answering the call of motherhood. It is really not in your best interest to work such long and odd hours"

So I can appreciate the sour opinions on WM and its ilk. I can honestly say that I have not frequented a WM in over 7 years, and I hope to double that . But as this is turning out to be a confession of sorts, I do go to Target and CostCo on occasion. My brother-in-law works at CostCo and he seems to be treated well, he even gets 401k. Can't speak for the female employees.

I mostly I stick to my town and the local shops there. Fair prices do not always translate into fair trade and treatment. WM may be the pioneer of efficiency, cost cutting and price haggling (see The World is Flat by Thomas L. Friedman) but its business practices with goods providers have influenced its conduct and treatment of its employees. Employees are yet another cheap commodity to be haggled over.

I concede however that WM offers a relief on COL increases which have outpaced raise increases nation wide.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jimnjo @ Mar 5 2007, 08:19 AM) [snapback]400234[/snapback]</div>

Any particular reason you hate corporate America? Which part of your Prius technology do you not like? Hate the parts suppliers? Dislike tire manufacturers? Perhaps the banks that financed you? PLease elaborate on your dislike and enlighten all of us.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 6 2007, 08:06 AM) [snapback]400846[/snapback]</div>

Your argument is not entirely correct. They "Wal-Mart" is a source of "Underemployment" for millions not quite employment. Of course they are a great source of employment for the local Medicaid, Welfair, and Foodstamp office as well. The prices that are charged may be cheaper for the consumer while at the store, but one ends up paying the full retail price after "TAXES".

If "They" could pay a living wage including insuring their workers and dependants while still providing services cheaper than their competitors you would have a valid argument.

Since I don't shop at "Wal-Mart" I think that you might owe me some money for subsidizing your purchases since I am paying with my tax dollars for the benefits of those millions of employees at "Wal-Mart".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PLM @ Mar 28 2007, 06:29 PM) [snapback]413812[/snapback]</div>

Is this sort of like the retort one hears when a comment, oftentimes constructive, is made about the current politics in the white house (something I will admit I really *do* hate) 'why do you hate America?'

I looked my comments on Toy and corporations to which you seem to refer and found nothing about the Toy that I didn't like (though there are a couple very little things I might change, basically love the car). My comments on their parts suppliers were that I think Toyota seeks quality. That is a criticism? I thought my comments on corporate America were pretty bland and not particularly negative (unless maybe you yourself hate the profit motive, to which I allude).

I do have some specific problems with Wal Mart, and I think I provided as much enlightlenment in the above posts as I need to at this point.

Jim