Warranty on traction battery, difference between Toyota and Honda

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by Roy2001, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. Roy2001

    Roy2001 Active Member

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    I have not checked other manufacturers yet such as Tesla/Nissan/GM, here is what I found. Looks like at least Honda think it might be reasonable to provide warranty service if capacity loss is terrible. Toyota won't cover it at all. So in case my prime loses a lot of capacity, I would have to use it as a regular Prime. Hope that's not the case.

    Here is from Toyota warranty book:

    Gradual Capacity Reduction of Traction Battery (Lithium-ion Battery)
    Lithium-ion battery capacity (the ability to hold a charge) gradually reduces with time and use. This is a natural characteristic of lithium-ion batteries. The extent at which capacity is reduced changes drastically depending on the environment (ambient temperature, etc.) and usage conditions such as how the vehicle is driven and how the lithium-ion battery is charged. Reduction of lithium-ion battery capacity is NOT covered under warranty. In order to lessen the possibility of capacity reduction, follow the directions listed in the Owner’s Manual under “Capacity Reduction of the Hybrid Battery (Traction Battery).”

    Here is from Honda Clarity warranty book:

    High Voltage Battery Capacity Warranty
    This High Voltage Battery Capacity Warranty is in addition to the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

    Time Period
    This warranty’s coverage begins on the same date as the New Vehicle Limited Warranty (see page 9), and continues for 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.

    High voltage batteries degrade over time with use. Gradual capacity loss is expected and not covered under your vehicle’s warranty.

    Your authorized Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid dealer can determine the state of health of your high voltage battery and determine if the degradation level is within the expected range. Greater than normal degradation is covered under the High Voltage Battery Capacity Warranty, subject to applicable limitations in such warranty.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sounds like bull do-do. if you do know the parameters, what is the point?
     
  3. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe if you had a prime...(n)
     
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  5. Roy2001

    Roy2001 Active Member

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    #5 Roy2001, Apr 24, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
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  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Both Toyota and Honda seems to say NORMAL reduction of battery capacity is not covered by warranty to me. I am sure both Toyota and Honda will cover if the reduction is such that it is abnormal. In case of regular hybrid system in Honda Civic, the battery was covered but only if IMA battery light is on and internal code indicate imminent battery failure due to loss of capacity.

    Maybe not on regular Prius, but for Prime, the official warranty booklet (page 18) does mention exact wording OP posted on page.
    https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-18PriusPrime/pdf/T-MMS-18PriusPrime.pdf
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    neither will cover unless the battery throws a code, but who has the better track record?
     
  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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  9. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Pretty much all the PHEVs and BEVs have the same warranty speak. Capacity loss is not the company's problem except when it is so bad that it meets some random bar and then they'll replace it. Leaf, i3, Prius, Clarity, etc all the same. The only vehicles that don't have this is actually the Tesla S and Tesla X, but their batteries are so super awesome that it is not a problem. And if replaced under warranty, they guarantee what you get will be at least as good as what you had. For the Tesla 3, they added a capacity clause to the warranty absent from the S and X.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i've only lost 15% in 6 years, no worries.
     
  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    May I ask how you figured "15%" loss? I am not being sarcastic. I don't know if there is some number I should be watching on my Prime for reduction of battery capacity.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i ran a whole summer of testing after i got my pip. measured my commute by temperature, rain, humidity and etc.

    14 mile r/t commute used to average 2 miles left when i got home. now, i run out about a mile from home. 3 miles fro 16 is about 15%.
     
  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Thanks. So it is just empirical measurement of EV driving range. I was thinking there is a sensor or something that display traction battery capacity change over time. Or is there one, but Toyota is not sharing that information with us...?
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    likely there i s in the black box, but we will never see it. that's what makes honda's warranty above a joke.
     
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  15. Roy2001

    Roy2001 Active Member

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    Hmm, that is a little bit higher than I wished.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it may not be true for everyone, my almost 40,000 miles of electric driving is 2/3 of total.

    otoh, when it was new, getting 16 miles was 5 above sticker, and at 13 now, i'm still 2 ahead of the game.

    so if you're at thirty something, and 6 years from now, you're still in the high twenties, you really can't complain, even the you'd love to see no degradation.

    most of it comes in the second and third year, it hasn't dropped in a few years now.
     
  17. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    kWhr's used is the best measurement from fully charged to depletion (hybrid mode). Doesn't the Prime/PIP report this?
     
  18. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    PiP shows kwh on the EV driving ratio screen. There are two screens. I keep one for long term and the other one I reset when I get gas. So you'd need to reset it for each trip to know those numbers. That would mess up my spreadsheet that calculates EV and HV efficiency.
     
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  19. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    So far we really have no complaint with Toyota on battery issues.
    On Gen2 they have replaced many HV batts under warranty at 8-10 years, never really asking if the user did something to cause the problem. They also bent over backwards to cover many cases a little over warranty date on goodwill basis.

    Bottom line is, we have nothing to really complain about, except maybe some plug in owners would like zero capacity loss. I don't think any PiPs reporting in here ever had Li batt replacement.
     
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  20. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I remember reading a thread here several months ago where someone did have to replace their PiP NV battery, but I sure can't find it now. That's the only one so far afaik.
     
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