Waterless urinals going mainstream

I saw these (or something like it) in a movie theatre in Tucson, AZ. That was about 10 years ago. I don't think I've run across any here in CO. They should be a building code item (like dual flush toilets for households).

 

My health club had two of these units installed for about a year. Mercifully, they replaced them with conventional low flow units. I don't think this technology is ready for prime time. There was always a faint stench of urine near the waterless units.

 

One of the rest sops on I-95 had them in MA... Bad idea. After a couple of attempts I would find a tree along the side of the road instead of going in the bathroom.

 

Gross.



What all public restrooms, men and women's need is to be constructed out of total stainless steel walls, stalls, sinks, doors, etc.

Every 30 minutes steam and hot water should come out of vents all over and the whole nasty place should be sterilized, top to bottom, every surface and fixture, knob. Human beings on average are just dirty and unsanitary.


This is one area I don't want cleaning of any kind skimped on. These places are nasty enough.

 

All the gas stations along the highways in Germany seem to have them. They seemed pretty clean, especially compared to French toilets. Each one has an advertisement that lights up when you use the urinal. If the ad space is not sold, it has an ad for the company that placed them, telling you how much water they save. You pay to use them, but the ticket you get will give you a discount for the same amount on any purchase in the shop, so it's free if you buy something. Haven't seen them here yet. I think the Germans are "gründlich" in cleaning them, to prevent smells. Hope the French never adopt them, they can't even keep a regular urinal clean.

 

The dealer I bought my Prius from is supposedly one of the first all-green dealerships to be built (Pat Lobb Toyota in McKinney, TX). They have the waterless urinals, and they seems to work fine. As far as truck stops... Water or no water, they stink if not kept clean. Not to mention that some people cannot hit the broad side of a barn. The urine stench in public restrooms comes mainly from the floor and non-functioning traditional urinals.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Jun 17 2007, 03:23 PM) [snapback]463540[/snapback]</div>

The technology is fine.

The smell is caused by not keeping it clean.

Waterless urinals are simply less forgiving for bad cleaning practices.

 

I think we need to be as concerned w/ water shortages as we do with oil shortages, so I'm glad to see movement in this area. I've not had experiences with these waterless toilets to comment on them. It does seem that smell would be a major issue.

I watched a show about composting toilets and these supposedly don't smell, don't use water and are sanitary. Instead of turning people off to smelly conservation applications, maybe we should be focusing more on these. These toilets have microbes that do the composting and then the end result can be used as a fertilizer, I believe. No water, no waste.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting_toilet

 

Our local stage theater installed these about a year or so ago. They are a godsend in comparison to what they had in there which seemed always to be overflowing and in need of repair. The theater keeps the restroom clean and there is no more smell than any other restroom.

IMHO, the problem with smelly restrooms is that they are not kept clean in the first place, and flush urinals do not change things when the entire restroom is not kept clean. In this, I agree with patrickindallas.

IMHO, water-free urinals should be everywhere, and keeping public restrooms clean should be common sense.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Jun 18 2007, 03:12 PM) [snapback]464174[/snapback]</div>

100 % agreed. Composting toilets would solve a lot of problems, IMHO, the biggest one is that there would be no need for sewage treatment plants. However, "flush" toilets were invented in ancient times and are ingrained in our society, world-wide. Though not insurmountable, switching to composting toilets could be accomplished, and there is at least one building in the US where they are installed. (Unfortunately, I do not know the name of the building.) Flushing our waste elsewhere simply dumps it on some else's doorstep, or like in our case, out in the middle of our local lake. I'd hate to fall in the water anywhere near that point.

 

I work for my local county government, who recently opened a new, "green" office building with waterless urinals. Those restrooms stink. I don't work in that building and use those restrooms daily, but many of the staff from my department moved there when the building opened, and they all agree (well, the men anyway) that the men's room smells bad. They get the same cleaning (quite adequate, IMHO) as the other restrooms, which never smell bad even at the end of the day. (Except transiently, but that's not from the urinals, if you catch my "drift." )

If these are typical, I agree with IsrAmeriPrius: They're not ready for prime time.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboK @ Jun 18 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]464192[/snapback]</div>

Maybe they eat too much asparagus. :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ Jun 18 2007, 01:30 PM) [snapback]464183[/snapback]</div>

The one upside to centralized water treatment is that the waste can be digested to produce methane which can then be used to produce electricity via fuel cells or mirco turbines. The result could still be sold as fertilizer. This is being done in a few places but it needs to become more mainstream. There are benefits either way. There's still going to be water treatment for the forseeable future so ideally, municipalities should take advantage of the benefits. This stuff can supply baseload electricity, which is the best kind of renewable energy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patrickindallas @ Jun 17 2007, 02:26 PM) [snapback]463571[/snapback]</div>

It is a high end health club. The restrooms are checked for cleanliness on at least an hourly basis.

The problem is with the technology. There is no cycling of fluids to ensure that all the urine ends up below the BlueSeal ® liquid barrier.

 

Perhaps if we all drank enough water, our urine wouldn't smell so bad to begin with, so the waterless toilets would work. Maybe because I have always lived in places with lots of water, water conservation for the sake of water conversation has never struck me as particularly important - using less hot water to save on electricity/gas, yes! - using less water in the lawn to avoid long term salination issues, yes! - but using less water so there is less water to run through the treatment plant, Huh?? Water treatment and distribution takes a little energy, but compared to the rest of the glaring examples where we could be more energy efficient, it isn't much of a blip, even if everyone flushed on only #2s and not #1s, there would be a only a trivial amount of water saved and a even more trivial amount of energy saved. A large part of the water in the system goes towards industries that use it (between 20-60% is normal), and in older cities, it is common that up to 25% of the water leaks out from the pipes before it even reaches a user. You yahoos that live in the desert perhaps should be more concerned for survivals sake, but where there is a lot of fresh water, is there a real, measureable benefit from having urine find its own way down to the sewer.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkMN @ Jun 19 2007, 04:24 PM) [snapback]464899[/snapback]</div>

It's not just the energy that is used in the treatment process, it's all of the chemicals. Icky chemicals that aren't all that great for the environment. The treated (and sometimes not treated) water, along with these chemicals, is then discharged into watersheds, lakes, rivers, etc. This is known to contaminate and amend the environment. Also, heavy storms can cause combined sewers, that contain untreated waste, to overflow and further contaminate our fresh water sources with raw sewage. So, less water traveling through our combined sewers means less of a chance of overflow and contamination of our environment.

Your perception that people needn't worry about water supply so long as they reside in an area near fresh water sources are ill conceived. I live within a half hour drive of Lake Michigan and there are neighboring counties that are encountering water shortages. Link.........

http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=223692

The problem is of enough magnitude and consequence that our Governor (whatever you think about him), has found it necessary to enact measures to manage this problem so that future consequences cease or are limited.

Basically, we're displacing billions of gallons of water from our natural environs and then we impede the recharging of our local water sources through development; where our roofs, driveways, streets and sidewalks provide an impervious surface and redirect rain water from recharging these natural systems and instead send it the nearest body of water along with all of the pollutants picked up along the way.

I hoping that you'll start thinking twice as you let that tap run as you brush your teeth. Please, oh please......

 

We installed a couple dozen Falcon units in our new building and they are great. It just required a little instruction for the cleaning services folks and they have been problem and odor free. A million gallons of water per year saved is nothing to sneeze at. They are less expensive to purchase, install, and maintain than regular urinals.

If not installed properly or in a restroom with less than code minimum exhaust they might have odor issues.

They are in the Colorado Springs Airport, the Rose Bowl, El Paso School District, and many other places around including a number of park facilities.

Unfortunately they do not improve aim.

TI RFAB

Paul

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Jun 19 2007, 04:48 PM) [snapback]464932[/snapback]</div>

According to the AWEA, something like 48% of all water withdrawals in this country are for power generation. Some of that water is returned (albeit at a much higher temp than it was withdrawn at) but a lot goes up as steam in cooling towers. The biggest bang for our collective buck is to reduce the number of thermal power plants and to increase the efficiency of the remaining ones.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enerjazz @ Jun 19 2007, 04:47 PM) [snapback]464948[/snapback]</div>

The only real way to improve aim, is to provide a target.
Painted flies, spirals, scoreboards, whatever.
That works... because guys are like that! (this is what my DH tells me)

 

Why are we talking about the overspary? Didn't you read the title for the OP? These urenals are only designed to catch the Main Streem. Combine this with Cheryl Crows single sheet of toilet paper, and the planet is saved.