What do you think of ICE vs Hybrids?

I'm going to give one perspective that does not relate to fuel consumption.

My current car is a 48V "mild hybrid", so as near as dammit to ICE.

It's only done 75,000km (less than 50,000 miles), but last month had to replace all four brake pads and all four brake discs. It cost me more than A$3000 (US$2000).

The energy-recovery systems in full hybrids (and PHEVs and EVs) mean that much of the slowing of the car is done through regen, and friction braking plays a very small role in bringing the car to a halt, except in emergencies. That massively reduces wear on the brakes. When I sold my Prius it had done 130,000km, and there was loads of life left in the brakes.

There are heaps of other reasons to prefer hybrids (and PHEVs and EVs) to straight ICE cars: fuel consumption, smoothness in stop-start traffic, general NVH and much more. But the brake wear is something that people don't really think of, even though it's a significant cost.

 

Tell that to Sydney North Shore BMW...

I did call around, and they weren't actually any dearer than anyone else: this is the going rate for four discs and four pads for an X3 in Australia.

 

Yes. They're not known for being cheap to maintain.

 

After my three Prius, today I own:

• 2019 Tesla Model 3
• 2017 BMW i3-REx (range extender engine, no transmission)

I love the both but they are different. The Tesla is a road warrior with AutoPilot and Full Self Driving, it comfortably eats miles very cheaply, $2.50/100 miles.

The BMW i3-REx has dumb cruise control but the short wheel base and Tesla-like power to weight ratio, it works great in the city traffic. A little more expensive, $2.90/100 miles, it is a joy to deal with traffic jams and tight spaces. With the range extender, the 106 miles EV gets another 88 miles with the motor-scooter engine before adding 2.3 gallons of mid-grade. You can feed the range extender 24x7 like a motor cycle cross country in a comfortable cabin.

The Prius boosted my efficiency from ~35 MPG to ~52-55 MPG. So I could travel long distances for very little. It was quieter than my previous ICE with less vibration.

As for our previous ICE, an Echo, Minivan, Chevette, and Fury station wagon, nothing I would recommend except for someone I don't like.

Bob Wilson

 

I hate the noise of an engine. Moving away from both

 

Yep BMW...."Bring Massive Wallet"....hehehe The "luxury" label can add the costs for everything.

It's the same in the RV industry....a little garden hose can be $20 but if you slap "RV" on the label, you're looking at $30! It can be frustrating!

 

I might add the wedding industry to your list as well.

 

Most hybrids are really ICE cars that are up-optioned to use EV to make the ICE part appear to be more economical, ecological, etc.

Downmarket drivers can use the magic of depreciation to make SOME HEV/PHEVS more economical real-world - or a lot less so, depending on the vagaries of maintenance history, brand reliability, or just plain dumb luck.

About 10 years ago, wireless Prius drivers were being triggered by the words "hybrid premium" and many new owners were asking questions and expressing doubts.
I often opined that any vehicle with over 5 years or 100,000 miles on the clock is susceptible to HVAC, suspension, drivetrain, electrical, brake, or other issues that can cause thousands in repair costs.
Hybrids have all of these vulnerabilities AND batteries, inverters, motor/generators, regenerative brakes, and you can add chargers for the not-wireless ones.

Can hybrids 'pay back' their premium?

Yup.
The SMART, INFORMED owner can stack the odds deeply in their favor......for either purchase choise.

As they say in the biz.....

YMMV.

 

There’s precious little difference in the electrical complexity of modern cars, regardless if their propulsion is just engine, or assisted with a hybrid battery. Don’t kid yourself; they’re all electrically as complex as hell. Watch a few of the electrical trouble-shooting South Main Auto videos.

 

^ This. Plus, also, apparent complexity aside, the electrical stuff often replaces pre-electrical stuff that failed more. So the real 'problem' part of that problem statement is the part about mechanics being averse to it, and that is (of absolute necessity) getting better.

 

One third to two thirds of the like is a wide range, but I agree.
The real-world life-cycle of the 'every-car' a is about 15 years and/or 200k (miles).

The repair costs have gone up by MORE than 1/3 to 2/3 even when you're factoring in inflation.

Skilled?
Honest?
YMMV.
In the military, intel weenies play a little game that the folks out in the field call: "WE bet YOUR life."
In the automotive world, it's more like WE troubleshoot with YOUR wallet.
I've been here long enough to see more than a few posts by outraged owners who report that technicians can neither diagnose NOR repair an ICE car more rapidly or for less money than their hybrid counterparts.
The thing about hybrids is that (a) they have more things to break and (b) most hybrids will fail completely if something like an inverter or a traction battery goes Tango-Uniform.

Either way?
As accurately stated above, in many cases it's an electronics issue, but also as accurately stated above they replace less reliable mechanical components, and they're often connectorized - for easy removal and replacement!
Sometimes?
More than one component or wire can go bad, which means that the "technician" might have to replace more than one part at a time, following a well-thought out and documented diagnostic procedure.

Or?
They just use the SWAG method.
In the electronics world, they call it "easter-egging" which is the art of replacing stuff until the problem (or the customer) goes away.
Dealerships have an advantage in this world...because, like COSTCO rotisserie chickens, they're in the BACK.
You have to walk out through a showroom of new-allegedly trouble-free cars after the "service advisor" gives you an estimate for a repair whose dollar amount has a comma in it.

 

Certainly, agree cars are more "complex" these days.

Also find that many systems on vehicles can self-diagnose and get the repair on the right track with a code message or fault indicator.
Many Factory Repair Manuals are quite advanced and almost like Military Technical Instruction Manuals walking you through each step.
The repair tools are also quite advanced-reading the computers - scanning for codes- even able to command the car systems to run through diagnostic protocols.
In some cases Technician education has not kept pace with the information and tools available
.
There are cases where there is a work around for the Technician skill, where through modern communication tools a Master Technician can remote in and lead the troubleshooting procedure to a successful conclusion.

One thing we can all probably agree on is that labor and parts costs have skyrocket complicating the return on investment portion of the repair equation, and I wonder if that is the root of the real conversation?

 

labor costs are up because of the lack of laborers, not the complexity of systems

 

+1

What do I think of ICE vs hybrids?
Isn’t that like asking what do you think of Fruit vs Apples?