When did the shrub learn of Haditha ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ May 30 2006, 06:52 PM) [snapback]263138[/snapback]</div>

Going around murdering civilians in cold blood is a pretty good definition of an illegal occupying army. It's also the best possibly way to turn all Iraqi citizens against the U.S., and a very effective way to breed hatred of the U.S. throughout the Muslim world.

 

Bush "troubled", soldiers "traumatized"

"Cameras confiscated
In separate interviews with The Associated Press on Monday, the parents of two of the Marines who were members of a unit sent into Haditha to help remove the bodies said their children have been traumatized by the experience.

Lance Cpl. Andrew Wright, 20, and Lance Cpl. Roel Ryan Briones, 21, were ordered to photograph the scene with personal cameras they happened to be carrying the day of the attack, the families said. Briones’ mother, Susie, said her son told her that he saw the bodies of 23 dead Iraqis that day.

“It was horrific. It was a terrible scene,†Susie Briones said in a tearful interview at her home in California’s San Joaquin Valley.

Navy investigators confiscated Briones’ camera, his mother said. Wright’s parents, Patty and Frederick Wright of Novato, declined to comment on what might have happened to the photos their son took but said he turned over all of his information to the Navy.

“He is the Forrest Gump of the military,†Frederick Wright said. “He ended up in the spotlight through no fault of his own.â€

Ryan Briones told the Los Angeles Times that Navy investigators had interrogated him twice in Iraq and that they wanted to know whether bodies had been tampered with. He turned over his digital camera but did not know what happened to it after that.

'Traumatic' for the soldiers
Susie Briones said the military had done little to help her son, who goes by his middle name, deal with his post-traumatic stress disorder.

“It was very traumatic for all of the soldiers involved with this thing,†said Susie Briones, 40, an academic adviser at a community college.

Briones’ best friend, Lance Cpl. Miguel “T.J.†Terrazas, had been killed the day of the attack by the roadside bomb, his mother said. Briones was still grieving when he was sent in to clean up the bodies of the Iraqi civilians.

“He had to carry that little girl’s body,†she said, “and her head was blown off and her brain splattered on his boots.â€

The Wrights declined to say whether their son witnessed the killings or what he thought of the allegations against other members of his unit.

He was under so much pressure because of the investigation that he had consulted with an attorney, they said. He has also experienced psychological trauma.

Wright and Briones are both recipients of the Purple Heart, given to soldiers wounded in battle.

Wright was injured during an assault on Fallujah in January 2005. He voluntarily rejoined his unit at Camp Pendleton the next month.

Briones was on his second tour of duty in Iraq. He received a Purple Heart during his first tour."

The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

[Warning: The Associated Press is a well known anti-American liberal defeatist organization of whiners]

 

Pregnant Iraqi Woman shot to death

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Two Iraqi women were shot to death north of Baghdad after coalition forces fired on a vehicle that failed to stop at an observation post, the U.S. military said Wednesday. Iraqi police and relatives said one of the women was about to give birth.

A car entered a clearly marked prohibited area near coalition troops at an observation post but failed to stop despite repeated visual and auditory warnings, the U.S. military said in a statement e-mailed to The Associated Press.

“Shots were fired to disable the vehicle,†the statement said. “Coalition forces later received reports from Iraqi police that two women had died from gunshot wounds ... and one of the females may have been pregnant.â€
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The statement said the incident was being investigated.

“The loss of life is regrettable and coalition forces go to great lengths to prevent them,†the military said.

'About to give birth'
The statement was issued after Iraqi police said a pregnant woman and her cousin were killed by American troops while driving to a maternity hospital in Samarra, a predominantly Sunni city 60 miles north of Baghdad.

The shooting deaths occurred in the wake of an investigation into allegations that U.S. Marines killed unarmed civilians in the western city of Haditha.

AP Television News footage showed the women’s bodies wrapped in sheets and lying on stretchers outside the Samarra General Hospital, while residents pointed to bullet holes on the windshield of a car and a pool of blood on the seat.

“I was with the victims, one of them was pregnant and about to give birth,†said a woman who did not give her name but said she was a relative of the victims.


The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ May 30 2006, 09:52 PM) [snapback]263138[/snapback]</div>

This is an extremely sad story- both because of the atrocities committed in Iraq, and that we have a President who get his briefings on matters of national security from Time magazine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Jun 2 2006, 11:10 AM) [snapback]264640[/snapback]</div>

It is obvious that Bush's "moral values" are purely expedient and merely serve his will to power. This is a very old trick. Remember in Shakespeare's Richard III how the machiavellian Richard came before the people reading scripiture with two "holy fathers" by his side? The amazing thing is that the old tricks always work.

 

Well seeing that no one here will defend those providing us with the freedom to write some of this drivel, I must make the attempt.

Haditha -
first, no one is sure what happened yet. but, for the sake of liberalism, lets assume the worst.

Second, statement of fact - if it so chose EVERY CITIZEN in Iraq could be killed by the United States military, so let's be a little cautious about declaring it a bloodthirsty mob of killers.

third, if true is this act deplorable, yes

fourth, should those involved be punished, yes

fifth, if proven to be U.S. soldiers will they be punished, yes (maybe not to the degree that some would hope, but a guy just got 90 days for letting his dog "bark" to close to a prisoner)

sixth, Do other military forces commit atrocities? yes

seventh, is a member of ANY OTHER FIGHTING FORCE (legitimate or otherwise) EVER punished for committing the same type of act, NO. Unless the U.S. Military does it.

eighth, is a small minority of the population trying to kill U.S. Troops every second of the day? yes

ninth, do you think that might cause some stress in a human? yes

tenth, are "innocent" people killed everyday in Detroit by people under a heck of a lot less stress than the U.S. forces? yes

eleventh, did you ever think that the pregnant women KNEW she would be fired upon and deliberately drove near the US forces? if not read below.

Unfortunately liberal thinkers, and idealistic conservatives, can never win a conflict in the middle east. Why? Liberals have no concept to the lengths to which determined peoples of that region are willing to go to enforce their will upon others and Conservatives are unwilling to go to the extremes necessary to be victorious against people that believe in the old (and still current) way of life in the middle east.

The region has massacred each other in ways that most can never imagine. It is part of the culture and it is accepted. Just as it had been to "us" of European descent until only recently. Its not fear mongering but you must know that the enemy being faced now in Iraq cannot be defeated/befriended with money or trinkets (as was Russia and will be China).

This is a fundamental belief difference. Either they will accept those who believe as we do, or they will kill them. PERIOD. Of course you could sacrifice every liberal idea about freedom and equality and accept their (their being the Islamic faith) belief, thereby saving your life, but at what cost?

The fundamental difference between US and THEM is that WE tolerate others, we may not accept or approve of them sure, THEY do not. You either believe, think and worship the way we do or your killed.
By the way, no Atheists in a fundamental Islamic society, its a death sentence, unless your judge insane!