Which car to buy?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by maiki, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how long was the test drive? once the warm up cycle starts, it can take awhile to shut off.
    if the clarity starts in hv, the engine is always going to warm up. a mistake in my opinion
     
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  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Didn't get a chance to drive a Clarity. It was on a short list of potential future cars, but Honda made them special order outside of California before finally canceling them.

    PHEV design falls into two philosophies. One is that the EV mode behaves just like a BEV, with the car just using electricity then. The other is that the car has an engine, make use of it at high loads and speeds to save charge in the battery for times when electricity can go further, instead of hauling the engine around as dead weight. When the PiP came out, the term blended PHEV was used.

    Just like mild hybrid models vary in how much electrical assist the system can supply, blended PHEVs vary on which points the system will turn on the engine. The PiP was the weakest blended PHEV to be available, yet some owners have a high ratio of EV use. Depending on driving style and route, a blended PHEV can stay completely in EV operation. EV Auto is blended mode for the Prius Prime, and some posters here have the engine come on with it, and for others it ends up no different than being in EV mode.

    The Clarity PHEV has a powerful motor. It produces more power than the motors in the BEV and FCEV models. It is more powerful than the Prius Prime, even after considering M/G1 helping out, and the cars' weights. It should stay in EV operation until the battery in depleted for most people. I suspect the one you test drove wasn't charged. Dealerships have left new PHEVs uncharged for test drives.

    Another possibility if the car had to be switched to EV mode, and the test drive is short.
     
  3. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    I found this 9 mi video helpful o the Fiat 500e
     
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  4. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Just like the Prime, the vehicle defaults to EV mode at every startup IF there is any charge left in the battery (above 2 bars/pips on the battery scale). So, if the salesdroid pushed the HV button, they put it back into HV mode. So, yes your test drive was in (needless) gas mode. NOTE: push and hold of HV button will enable HV+ (charge) mode just like the Prime.

    On the left side steering wheel controller, you can select a dash display that will show both EV and HV range. You can also select an animation that shows if one is driving on EV or HV power. There is a similar display on the center screen also.

    TIP: select sport mode (pwr) and four pulls of the left steering wheel paddle (for max regen). This is how I drive ours.

    Photo shows battery on left (in HV mode), empty gas tank on right. (I was intentionally running out of gas on this trip).

    IMG_5153.jpeg
     
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that's what i figured. salesdroid pulled the same dumb maneuver on my prime test drive.

    i'm like, 'why is the engine running?' he was clueless
     
  6. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Senior Member

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    If I were in your position, needed a car now but really wanted an EV that wouldn't be available for a few months, I would buy an inexpensive used gas car that got good mileage and could be sold in a year for close to what I paid for it. Something like a $3500 Honda Civic. I would shop online sites like Craigslist and click on owner, not dealer ads. Since the Clarity is discontinued after this year, it might not be a good long term investment. Realize that there is no way you can buy a used car from a dealer and sell it a year later for close to what you paid for it, but it might be possible from a private party.
     
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  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Clarity driver on pure EV mode just like Prius Prime provided there is sufficient battery charge left. Are you sure the car you drove had been charged when you test drove it? 10 out of 10 times I have test drove PHEVs, the dealer never bothered to have it charged, yes, full of gas but no traction battery charge. Thus the car only drives like a regular hybrid car.
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    same here, and if you don't know the displays, and the saleswesel doesn't, it can be hard to find.
     
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  9. maiki

    maiki Member

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    Yep, in that video they really liked the 500e. Since he spoke of used ones selling for $7,000 or so, perhaps the $14,000 the dealer is asking for that 2015 one is not a good deal? I will search for other prices. (Or can dealers be negotiated down for used car prices?) Due to the low range, probably not a good car for the long term (for most of my drives would be fine, but sometimes one has to go further?), but if I buy a Tesla Model 3 (as I am considering) one would have to wait a couple months for it, and buying one of these cheap to use in the meantime might be a better option than renting a car for months?
     
  10. maiki

    maiki Member

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    Thank you, Fotomoto. If I recall correctly, it did look like the battery was fully charged, from the display. In case I test drive it again, how can I make sure it is in EV only mode, to have it drive like an EV, with no engine noise? (As unlike the Prime, I saw no EV button.) (Again, on that test drive, I tried it with HV On and HV Off (by pressing that HV toggle button), and heard the same engine noise both ways.)

    I didn't notice the steering wheel paddles.


     
  11. maiki

    maiki Member

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    I looked up the Fiat 500e on Carvana. One here in the LA area. Actually more expensive than the one at the dealer that I saw (which was $14k, 2015 model, about 40k mileage). However, three years later (2018) and very low mileage so it might be a better deal. Or not?

    Used 2018 FIAT 500e | Carvana


    The guy in the video talked about used ones selling for $7k, but I think that video was made a couple years ago, and cars sell for more now?
     
  12. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    A quick note, if you're serious about Tesla. I'd recommend you check the forums to find one you might like. I'd need help staying current on everything about the car, and the tone of all the forums I've seen in the last couple of years has changed drastically from the earlier years.
     
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  13. triggerhappy007

    triggerhappy007 Active Member

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    Yes, because there's a shortage of cars now. They were only $7000 a few years ago, my niece bought one for that price. The real range is less than 70 miles and there's no DC quick charging. I'd stay away from the Fiat. If you buy it at $14k, you'll lose a lot of money when you sell it.

    As for the Clarity, there was a $6000 CA rebate that expired so people got them real cheap. Same thing like the Fiat, if you buy it now at $24k, you're going to lose a lot of money when you sell it. When you test drive the Clarity again, there's a detent on the gas pedal. If you accelerate hard past the detent, the gas engine will always come on. That's different than how our Primes operate.

    My suggestion is buy something that's just released like an ID4 or Mach-E. Resale values on those are really good right now.
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The video is over a year old, and the car market has changed much since then. With the lack of new cars, used ones have climbed in price. The good news on that is if you do resell it soon, you shouldn't have much trouble doing so.

    What Model 3 or you looking at, the standard or long range one? If the standard, you may be able to get it quicker by opting for a LFP pack. Tesla has been contacting reservation holders about the option. it isn't on the website, so you'll have to talk to someone at a Tesla store.
    US: Tesla Offers Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Option, Quicker Delivery

    The Model 3 SR for China has been getting this chemistry since introduction. LFP(lithium iron phosphate) is a Li-ion chemistry that doesn't use cobalt or nickel. It has a longer lifespan and much lower fire risk, which comes at the price of lower energy density. A LFP pack for the long range Model 3 wouldn't fit in the car. A standard range model might have a shorter range than the Model 3 SR+'s published one, but still well over 200 miles.
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    once the car is put in hv mode, you have to toggle hv again, and wait for warm up to finish, like the prime
     
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  16. maiki

    maiki Member

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    I would be fine with the standard range Tesla Model 3, but there is a MUCH longer wait for that, now until April. (While long range available in December if ordered now.)

    I went to a Tesla store for a test drive, and talked to the sales person afterwards, and she said nothing about the LFP pack. As well as nothing about that on the web site. How much extra does that add to the standard range price?

     
  17. maiki

    maiki Member

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    What forums are you referring to?
     
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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Sounds like Tesla was only making the offer to those with an order already placed. It has 10 less miles of range; 252.

    LFP is cheaper than Li-ion per cell, but the cost savings get reduced by needing more cells for the same pack capacity. So no price increase for the buyer, but Tesla mightget some more profit.
     
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  19. maiki

    maiki Member

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    Major change re Tesla. I received a call from the salesperson who gave me the test drive Tuesday, and said they are getting one that I could get later this week. So I will probably go with that (the car I liked test driving the most by far, although the Mach-E was a close 2nd). I know questions about Tesla would best be asked in a Tesla forum, but I don't yet know of any of those (any links to good ones?), and since many here seem knowledgeable about various EVs and PHEVs (including Tesla), I will ask these questions here now.

    Are the only advantages to the Long Range model the longer range and the 4 wheel drive, or are there other differences? The standard range would be fine for most of my driving, long range only if I take a long road trip some day (none planned now). And I don't know what advantage at all 4 wheel drive would have? Why do people want that, and doesn't it use more power? Any other differences? (This one she is getting is SR.)

    This one has the upgraded 19" wheels, which cost $1500 more. Is there any advantage to the larger wheels, or is that just cosmetic? (The regular wheels look fine to me.) And although this is not a custom ordered one, but one that already comes with the premium wheels, can I ask that they switch to the standard wheels, to save the $1500?

    I will likely take this one, as I liked test driving the Tesla Model 3, and taking this one would save me the trouble of looking for a long term rental or buying a used car to use while waiting for an ordered Tesla. In any case, answers to the questions above and any other info and suggestions you might have would be appreciated. (I understand there is no haggling with Tesla prices, correct? One just has to pay the amount they tell you to pay?)

    Thank you, :)
     
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  20. triggerhappy007

    triggerhappy007 Active Member

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