Which Hybrid SUV would you get?

So, my sister is ready to replace her Subaru Outback with a new car. I initially recommended the Subaru Forester, Honda CR-V or new Toyota RAV-4, since she still wants 4 wheel drive (good idea for a single school teacher living in Omaha, Nebraska). I don't totally trust the Ford hybrid Escape and it seems overpriced, as does the Toyota hybrid Highlander. She then started asking questions about the Ford Escape hybrid and the Saturn Vue hybrid. What follows was my response, which I thought I'd throw out here for additional comments and/or corrections:

To me, the main point should be whether the hybrid car uses significantly less gas and creates significantly less pollution, while still performing whatever particular car functions you're looking for in a transparent manner and without increased maintenance. There is no doubt the Prius is the overall champ in the gas and air pollution issues. I got the hybrid Camry because I was willing to give some of that up in favor of a car that is more comfortable and smoother riding, particularly for long highway trips, even though the interior room of the Prius in not much less than the Camry. In fact, you could argue it is less, given that the Prius has a large rear hatchback area, compared to the Camry's relatively small trunk.

The GM mild system is turning the engine off at stoplights, using a modified alternator system, but operates roughly and with an inelegant technology that is likely to require more maintenance. I don't regard this as doing enough to lower gas consumption or reduce air pollution, when balanced against the increased cost and mechanical complexity of their system. Their full hybrid system is not in production yet, but is also far less elegant from a technological pespective, because they are going to have a double system of clutches and other mechanical parts (in order to allow both the electric motor and gas engine to drive the car). The GM technology is extremely suspect on whether it does enough to lower gas consumption and air pollution. It is also likely to require increased maintenance, repair and replacement costs compared to the other 2 hybrid systems.

By comparison, the Toyota and Ford systems use an elegant planetary gear system that is likely to be very low maintenance over time. It allows both the electric motor and gas engine to drive the car using the same system of gears, etc. The trade off is that the planetary gear system is less efficient at low speeds and for high speed passing. The benefit (other than low maintenance) is that the planetary gear system is very smooth operating. You don't get the gear change bumps or jerks that you usually feel in auto transmission cars. They use clever computer technology to balance the use of the electric and gas engines to make it as efficient as possible, including turning the car on and off at stops. Since an electric motor has good low-end torque and can provide a power boost at high speeds, it makes up for the ineffiecencies of the planetary gear system.

The Honda system is different from both Toyota and GM. It uses the electric motor as a power booster. It never operates independently like the Toyota and Ford system. They use the car's computers to turn the gas engine off and on at stop lights. The 6-cylinder Accord hybrid also turns some of its cylinders off and on, depending on the current power needs at different speeds. In the Civic, the Honda technology gets good mileage and operates relatively cleanly and like a normal car, so Honda achieves the main goals of hybrid technology. Some people argue Honda's system is better, because they get the same gas savings and pollution reduction as the Toyota system, using simpler technology. Honda also does a very good job with environmental issues, with or without hybrid technology. However, they made a mistake making the Accord hybrid a 6-cylinder. The Prius has more interior room and technology goodies than the Civic. The Hondas probably both handle better than the Prius, but neither of them is available in a hatchback.

If you want a hybrid SUV, I would get the Escape or the Highlander. GM cars are frankly crap. The Highlander seems bigger and is probably a much nicer car than the Escape, and appears to get almost the same mileage. However, it is also $5,000 more. I haven't driven them, so you'll have to judge whether they give a car-like ride and are easy to get in and out of. It is my understanding the Escape and Highlander are based on more of a Truck-like chassis than the Forester, CR-V or RAV-4. I would expect the Forester to have the lowest passenger entry. Ford seems to have backpedalled a bit on its support of hybrid technolgy and has sold a lot fewer Escapes than they hoped for. Toyota is firmly committed and has already sold hundreds of thousands of hybrids. Some people argue that the hybrid Highlander is not worth the extra cost, because just like the Accord hybrid, it's mated with a 5-cylinder gas engine that doesn't get significantly higher mileage than the 4-cylinder non-hybrid version of the same car.

Finally, keep in mind the Toyota tax credit just dropped by 50%, because the federal tax credit was designed to benefit American car companies by tapering off for each individual manufacturer after a certain number have been sold.

Here's a link to a good article explaining why the VUE may or may not be a true hybrid:
http://www.hybridcars.com/saturn-vue-hybrid.html
and another one explaining how the "mild" GM system works:
http://www.hybridcars.com/belt-alternator-starters.html
Here's the Escape link:
http://www.hybridcars.com/escape.html
and the EPA mileage ratings:
http://www.hybridcars.com/mileage.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 1 2006, 04:48 PM) [snapback]326568[/snapback]</div>

Jonnycat - As a matter of fact, no, I didn't do much research, that's why I posted here, so you would do it for me! Bitch-slapping me for a typo seems a bit much though...

Interesting review, but not exactly enthusiastic. A detailed reading shows the hybrid Vue does not come in 4 wheel drive, so it's out of the running in any case.

The BAS system does seem to do a little bit more than start stop, but this explanation of the system does not change my original suspicions/opinions. The $650 tax credit ain't much by comparison to the $1,950 for the Escape.

Only time will tell on their full mode system, since it's not actually out yet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Oct 2 2006, 12:53 PM) [snapback]326953[/snapback]</div>

Thanks. This was the kind of reply I was hoping for. In fact she does like Subaru now and was also thinking of the Tribecca.

If anyone else has actual recommendations or test drive experiences, I'd love to hear it.