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which is it 2967.2 km or as CAN-view say's only

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Frank Hudon, Sep 3, 2006.

  1. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    68% of that number for the oil change interval.
    Trip Km's total was 2967.2 km's for the trip took 37 hours 13 minutes and the average Km's per hour was 79 kmh. but the ICE only ran for 68% of those km's so the guestion is 2967 or 2017 Km's on the oil?
     
    #1 Frank Hudon, Sep 3, 2006
  2. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Sep 3 2006, 05:04 PM) [snapback]313652[/snapback]</div>
    You're using CANview, correct? If so, the kms on the engine is only when fuel was being injected. The engine could have spun a lot more. I'd go with the higher number. CANview doesn't tell you % time it was spinning (yet). After reading through the topic on CANview (whew, that was a lot of reading!), I'm sure it could desplay just about anything soon. ;)
     
    #2 David Beale, Sep 3, 2006
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I'll tell you that once I hit the 'magical' 60k mile mark on my car I'm going to start cutting back oil changes to every 10k miles. I'm currently 'behaving myself' just in case there's some problem with the ICE so that I know it will be covered by warranty and Toyota won't be able to say it's my fault.

    But I think there is more than sufficient data to support that with today's oils and engines every 10k miles is very safe even on a conventional ICE that runs every mile of driving. With my car, who's ICE runs <50% of the time that I'm actually driving the car, I certainly think 5k miles is overkill and wasteful. Heck, 10k might be overkill and wasteful.

    It seems to make sense, in this era of hybrids, to switch to a Hobb's type timer for determining when to change oil. For instance, the Hobbs would only time when the ICE was running and every 100 hours or so you'd go get the oil changed. Seems quite an easy thing to implement.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(David Beale @ Sep 3 2006, 06:09 PM) [snapback]313655[/snapback]</div>
    Actually, I thought he was using the ICE rpm to determine ICE-on time...anything over 950rpm is considered 'running'.
     
    #3 efusco, Sep 3, 2006
  4. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(David Beale @ Sep 3 2006, 04:09 PM) [snapback]313655[/snapback]</div>
    granted is could have been spinning but with out any byproducts of combustion or the heat it becomes no different than an air compressor which most have a 1-2 year oil change interval.
     
    #4 Frank Hudon, Sep 3, 2006
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Again, why doesn't Toyota implement an oil sensor to determine the life of the oil and thus give us a real MAINT REQ'D light. If Acura and GM can have it, why not the Prius?
     
    #5 Tideland Prius, Sep 3, 2006
  6. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 3 2006, 04:11 PM) [snapback]313656[/snapback]</div>
    I believe he's using the injector on/off to say it's running or not. But I have to agree with Tideland at this point in time.
     
    #6 Frank Hudon, Sep 3, 2006
  7. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Sep 3 2006, 06:47 PM) [snapback]313670[/snapback]</div>
    Do they work that well as to be reliable for all the critical oil elements? Seems like an ideal solution if they work.
     
    #7 efusco, Sep 3, 2006
  8. Orf

    Orf New Member

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    It is common practice in Australia to state the number of km when an oil change is due or a 6 month time interval, which ever comes first. Does oil have a time life once it is in an engine, or are we being conned?
     
    #8 Orf, Sep 3, 2006
  9. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Orf @ Sep 3 2006, 07:42 PM) [snapback]313773[/snapback]</div>
    only a UOA will tell you the truth.
     
    #9 Frank Hudon, Sep 3, 2006
  10. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Sep 3 2006, 04:04 PM) [snapback]313652[/snapback]</div>
    Most drivers have no way of knowing how much time the engine is running, so Toyota must give recommended oil-change intervals based on total miles (or kilometers) driven.

    Whether the recommended intervals are too frequent or not is another issue, but clearly, Toyota's recommendation cannot be based on actual miles for which the engine is running. Doubtless, they make assumptions regarding the percentage of time the engine is running, ambient and operating temperatures, how much dirt is sucked in, etc.

    During the warranty period, failing to follow their recommendation can void the warranty. After that, I'd still assume they are recommending based on total miles/kms driven, and make adjustments up or down based on your operating conditions.
     
    #10 daniel, Sep 4, 2006
  11. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    4 liters of oil in my (now sold) Tundra V8 and 4 liters of oil in the Prius. Same trip, which was harder on the oil? Which ingested more air (contaminated or not) which ran the oil hotter thereby lowering the TBN? This car needs a oil change/maintance sender like Tideland said. One of the reasons it probably doesn't have one is the dealer would hardly ever see the car for maintance :lol:
     
    #11 Frank Hudon, Sep 4, 2006
  12. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    While "running burning fuel" is harder on oil than just "running", the Prius keeps the engine warm even when it's not needed, and the catylist action of the metal in the oil system along with the elevated temp. will cause oil degradation. How much can only be determined by testing. Short of that, I'd err on the conservative side and change the oil as recommended.

    As far as the comparison with the Tundra, the worst thing for oil cleanliness is to not keep it at a nice warm constant temp. The Prius allows the ICE to start and stop a lot (to understate reality ;) ), and my guess is this would be harder on oil cleanliness. That is, it would allow more contaminents to build up. It might not harm the oil, but the oil and contaminents would harm the engine more.

    You can certainly add a fancy oil monitor system. They are available from industrial suppliers. Be sure you are sitting down when you ask for the price. ;) It might take a long time to recover that cost with oil savings, but Prius owners don't generally care about cost recovery. They are really reducing their footprint on the environment as their first priority, not saving money.
     
    #12 David Beale, Sep 4, 2006
  13. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    I'm going to follow Jayman's method and do a UOA on it just before the mileage for a change and see just how it's doing. And make a decision from that on how to proceed. As to aftermarket oil change senders I have put them in before, not in engines but transmissions on forklifts. David if I had to guess the average temperature of the ICE for this trip I'd guess 87C Just above thermostat opening temp which on this car is from observation 84C but I did see a couple of times that it was 96-97C
     
    #13 Frank Hudon, Sep 4, 2006
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