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Who Is To Blame?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Mystery Squid, Sep 8, 2006.

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  1. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by
    >>> a. Superman
    >>> b. Jay Leno
    >>> c. Harry Potter
    >>> d. Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and
    >>> massacred by
    >>> a. Olga Corbett
    >>> b. Sitting Bull
    >>> c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 2. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
    >>> a. Lost Norwegians
    >>> b. Elvis
    >>> c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 3. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in
    >>> Lebanon by:
    >>> a. John Dillinger
    >>> b. The King of Sweden
    >>> c. The Boy Scouts
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 4. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
    >>> a. A pizza delivery boy
    >>> b. Pee Wee Herman
    >>> c. Geraldo Rivera
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and 70
    >>> year old Leon Klinghoffer, an American passenger
    >>> confined to a wheelchair, was murdered and thrown overboard by:
    >>> a. The Smurfs
    >>> b. Davy Jones
    >>> c. The Little Mermaid
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 6. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and Robert
    >>> Stidham, a US Navy diver was murdered by:
    >>> a. Captain Kidd
    >>> b. Charles Lindberg
    >>> c. Mother Teresa
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 7. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
    >>> a. Scooby Doo
    >>> b. The Tooth Fairy
    >>> c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
    >>>
    >>> a. Richard Simmons
    >>> b. Grandma Moses
    >>> c. Michael Jordan
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 9. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed
    >>> by:
    >>> a. Mr. Rogers
    >>> b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s
    >>> women problems
    >>> c. The World Wrestling Federation
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 10.On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as
    >>> missiles to
    >>> take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one
    >>> crashed
    >>> into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by
    >>> the
    >>> passengers. Thousands of people were killed by:
    >>> a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
    >>> b. The Supreme Court of Florida
    >>> c. Mr. Bean
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 11. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan
    >>> against:
    >>> a. Enron
    >>> b. The Lutheran Church
    >>> c. The NFL
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> 12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered
    >>> by:
    >>> a. Bonnie and Clyde
    >>> b. Captain Kangaroo
    >>> c. Billy Graham
    >>> d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
    >>>
    >>> Nope, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling,
    >>> do you..?
    >>>
    >>> So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly
    >>> fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no
    >>> longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct
    >>> random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with
    >>> proper identification, secret agents who are members of the
    >>> President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips,
    >>> and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave
    >>> Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone because of profiling.
    >>>
    >>> Let's send this to as many people as we can so that the Gloria
    >>> Aldred's and other dunder-headed attorneys along with Federal
    >>> Justices that want to thwart common sense, feel doubly ashamed of
    >>> themselves - if they have any such sense.
    >>>
    >>> As the writer of the award winning story "Forrest Gump" so
    >>> aptly put it, "Stupid is as stupid does."
    >>>
    >>> Come on people wake up!!!
    >>>
    >>> Keep this going. Pass it on to everyone in your address book .
    >>> Our Country and our troops need our support!
    >>>
    >>> And we must remember that we definitely should not tap phones,
    >>> they might find some of these terrorists and prevent some of these
    >>> terrible incidents from happening! After all we don't want to
    >>> infringe on someone's "Rights"!!!
    >>>
     
    #1 Mystery Squid, Sep 8, 2006
  2. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    You are dead on.

    El Al is sooo successful because they screen for terrorists not for just bombs/weapons. You cannot do one without the other.

    We better wake up and do other things Israel does too - targeted assinations and killings, securing our border, educating our citizens as to the threat, joining together and unifying in response to it.
     
    #2 dbermanmd, Sep 8, 2006
  3. Proco

    Proco Senior Member

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    On April 19, 1995, the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was bombed by:
    a. A bunch of college students playing a prank
    b. MacGyver
    c. A white male US Citizen

    The Unabomber was:
    a. Oprah Winfrey
    b. Mikhail Gorbachev
    c. A white male US Citizen

    Ronald Reagan was shot by:
    a. Mickey Mouse
    b. Roger Rabbit
    c. A white male US Citizen

    Anyone can cherry pick information to suit their views. [attachmentid=4920]
     
    #3 Proco, Sep 8, 2006
  4. narussian

    narussian New Member

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    Do you suppose we are doing anything to these people or their land that could give them any reason to be angry with us. Not saying it ever justifies murder, terror, bombing, kidnapping, etc. but it wouldn't hurt if that chain letter, pass it on good luck thing......included a little U.S. accountability. Or are we really just innocent victims, deers caught in the headlights? If so than maybe the 'secret agents who are members of the Presidents detail' should be screened ....to see if they qualify for the job.

    The death toll of U.S. in Iraq has already risen above that of 9/11. Is that worth it? Maybe, I really can't say, but I hope so since we voluntarily doubled the human loss of the greatest tragedy our country has seen in years.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Sep 8 2006, 08:07 AM) [snapback]316256[/snapback]</div>
    Ad infintum... school shootings, etc
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Sep 8 2006, 08:07 AM) [snapback]316256[/snapback]</div>
    thank you for saying this!! I appreciate someone adding a little to the other side of the scale!!
     
    #4 narussian, Sep 8, 2006
  5. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(narussian @ Sep 8 2006, 09:20 AM) [snapback]316260[/snapback]</div>
    No I dont think so. What specifically are you referring to? Even then you go on to say nothing justifies the mass murder of innocent people. Seems that even the French when brutally occupied by the german's did not strike innocent german civilians? And that was even with the declaration of war - here there is no declaration of war or was not prior to 9/11. after 8 years of clinton doing nothing but giving in to these islamonazis/islamofascists you can not possibly believe that if we run, hide, and stay bottled up in the US of A bring all the McDonalds home, all American enterprises, etc, they will leave us alone - do you??

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Sep 8 2006, 09:07 AM) [snapback]316256[/snapback]</div>
    You obfuscate - but that is your sides way.
     
    #5 dbermanmd, Sep 8, 2006
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 8 2006, 08:27 AM) [snapback]316268[/snapback]</div>
    You're probably correct, but a little introspection never hurts.



    he didn't obfuscate anything. His point was clear and valid and he did exactly what I was contemplating doing. There is plenty of home-grown terrorism too.

    That said, I think profiling makes sense. Now, the line b/w profiling and harrassement is slim and great care has to be taken with that, it isn't fair to discriminate against loyal US citizens who happen to be muslim and of middle-eastern descent. Yet a high degree of scrutiny to assure the person is who they say they are is critical.

    OTOH, just to obfuscate a bit, once we start getting tighter with male muslims b/w the age of 17-40 the terrorists will start using people that fall outside that profile..in fact they already have begun using women in more prominant rolls. If I'm not mistaken I believe a woman was one of the people involved in the London subway/bus bombing but her vest failed to explode.
     
    #6 efusco, Sep 8, 2006
  7. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Sep 8 2006, 09:07 AM) [snapback]316256[/snapback]</div>
    This is Horsesh*t.

    Gee, total up the homegrown terrorist body count and compare it to the body count as a resultant of Muslim male extremists, then you have an argument to make. :rolleyes:
     
    #7 Mystery Squid, Sep 8, 2006
  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I think you're missing his point MS...Your article/e-mail/whatever cherry-picked to make it's point. He's simply saying that there are other things and other people who deserve consideration. If we put on blinders and ONLY look for muslim males b/w 17-40 then we're going to be in big trouble.

    If nothing else the terrorists have shown themselves to be innovative and adaptable. We clamp down to the extreme on your selected profile on air planes then they'll stop using airplanes and start using something else. Or they'll use women on air planes while the men bomb the subways.

    As I said, I think profiling, within limits, makes a lot of sense and that we've got a little to prissy about worring about hurting people's feelings. Common sense has to take a front seat if safetly is foremost, but we can't fall under the misconception that it would make us safe, it simply creates one more barrier.
     
    #8 efusco, Sep 8, 2006
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Sep 8 2006, 08:07 AM) [snapback]316256[/snapback]</div>
    To your list let's add Jose Padilla and William Krar--
    "In 2002, U.S. federal agents arrested Jose Padilla, a U.S. citizen, at an airport in the central city of Chicago. The Justice Department says he is an Al-Qaeda operative and was planning to find a good site to explode a so-called dirty bomb in the United States. Officially declared an enemy combatant, Padilla has had only limited access to his lawyer and is being held indefinitely. A few months later, federal agents in Texas arrested William Krar, who was found to have a bomb like the one used in Oklahoma City, as well as a half-million rounds of ammunition. Krar is now serving an 11-year prison term."

    http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/...fa2ac7c06a.html
     
    #9 efusco, Sep 8, 2006
  10. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 8 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]316328[/snapback]</div>
    Are we really? How so? Within the realm of terrorism, they are, by far, the most dangerous demographic. The body count ratio is probably what? 1,000:1? Sorry Doc, I DON'T think we'd be in "big trouble", quite the opposite actually.

    No, I think what's going on here, is certain people hate hearing the ugly truth society has conditioned us against: profiling. Particularly with respect to terrorism. ...and you know what? It works.

    When I get on a plane, or walk into an office building, I'm not worried about the unabombers, the McVeigh's, etc., ad nausem, I'm worried about these Muslim fanatics, you know, the TENS OF MILLIONS of them being conditioned everyday around the globe to kill Americans.

    BTW, nowhere was it said, or even implied, we should "ONLY" look for Muslim males, that's YOUR little interjection, or, as current vernacular has it:

    SPIN.

    :lol:
     
    #10 Mystery Squid, Sep 8, 2006
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Oh, and the Anthrax stuff, almost forgot. That's strongly suspected to be a disgruntled US citizen...

    Not to mention Eric Robert Rudolph and the Olympic bombings and the others who commit violence against fellow Americans for whatever cause they feel their violence justifies.
     
    #11 efusco, Sep 8, 2006
  12. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 8 2006, 11:07 AM) [snapback]316336[/snapback]</div>
    What do you think the ratio is?

    non-Muslim terrorists who don't fit the above mentioned profile, to Muslims that do fit the demographic of that e-mail?



    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 8 2006, 11:09 AM) [snapback]316340[/snapback]</div>
    What's the body count Doc.? C'mon, which demographic is more dangerous, and has the results to back it up????????
     
    #12 Mystery Squid, Sep 8, 2006
  13. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Sep 8 2006, 10:09 AM) [snapback]316339[/snapback]</div>
    You're developing Wildkowitis...The "How So" I explained quite clearly. Because the terrorists are adaptable and will change their means and the personel to work around the profiling.

    I addressed that twice already in this thread. You're right, we've gotten overly sensitive about profiling...we need to be careful about who and how we do it so as to not unduely discriminate, but profiling is a logical and intelligent way of selecting out from the thousands and thousands of people going through an airport to predict those more likely to have evil intent.

    Tens of millions? I'd like a source for that estimate. 10s of thousands is certainly possible, but the HUGE majority of those are outside the US. A few hundred, perhaps, in sleeper cells residing in the US seems likely. We know there are a few thousand home-grown terrorist that are card-carrying US Citizens that are your neighbors and countrymen.

    And I never 'spun' it that way or implied that you only would look for Muslim males. But the nature of the beast is that's what the trend ends up being. It's a human nature thing. You've got H.S. drop outs working for the TSA for just above minimum wage and somebody tells them to profile for X demographic...and that's what they do. It's not like we've got highly trained CIA folks monitoring those screening lines with years of training on reading faces and body language.

    You want to make me to be a bad guy, the thing is I'm agreeing with you, I just don't like the way you cherry picked to make a point. And I want to clarify the importance of controlling the way the profiling is done.
     
    #13 efusco, Sep 8, 2006
  14. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Sep 8 2006, 08:47 AM) [snapback]316250[/snapback]</div>
    Nice test, :lol: :lol:
     
    #14 hycamguy07, Sep 8, 2006
  15. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Sep 8 2006, 10:12 AM) [snapback]316341[/snapback]</div>
    So that's all that matters...body counts? Are we talking about on US soil? On US soil, depending upon your definition of terrorism, the ratio is probably around 10:1. I don't think it's fair to talk about world-wide b/c your point was profiling in the US and homegrown terrorist won't have any interest in attacking off US soil.

    The ratio wild be about 1/2 that had Padilla succeeded in bring down an airliner.

    Again, I agree with you that profiling should be one of the tools in the arsenal, but it must be used carefully so as not to open the door for our home-grown terrorists or Muslims not fitting the profile to take advantage.
     
    #15 efusco, Sep 8, 2006
  16. narussian

    narussian New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Sep 8 2006, 09:44 AM) [snapback]316325[/snapback]</div>
    How is this Horsesh*t? Is it untrue? I am unsure of what Horsesh*t s in the way I believe you are unclear on the usage of obfuscate? Please Clarify?
     
    #16 narussian, Sep 8, 2006
  17. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    Who has killed more Jews in the history of mankind?
    a. Muslim extremist males ages 17-40.
    b. Muslim extremist males ages 41-1000.
    c. Muslim extremist females ages 1-100000.
    d. A white aryan christian.
     
    #17 burritos, Sep 8, 2006
  18. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Sep 8 2006, 11:40 AM) [snapback]316363[/snapback]</div>
    Nice try, not taking the bait... :lol:
     
    #18 Mystery Squid, Sep 8, 2006
  19. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Sep 8 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]316368[/snapback]</div>
    Isn't Mystery squid bait?

    Go have a veggie burrito. They're damn good if you have enough sour cream.
     
    #19 burritos, Sep 8, 2006
  20. Proco

    Proco Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 8 2006, 11:22 AM) [snapback]316350[/snapback]</div>
    Since it was my response that seemed to set us all off on the luge ride we're now one, it's only fair that I include my opinion.

    I agree with everything that Evan has said so far. Profiling is definitely a useful tool, but we must be very careful that it's not abused. The people doing the profiling need to be well trained in what to look for. In the aftermath of 9/11, many Sikhs were being harassed because ignorant people thought they were arab. Likewise, everyday arab-americans were getting harassed. There was an atmosphere of "all arabs are terrorists". That's not good for anyone.
     
    #20 Proco, Sep 8, 2006
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