Why are paper bags SOOOO much better than plastic bags?

I have a number of string bags for shopping purposes. Also cloth.

As for the inside trash, well, before there was plastic, what did people do? I suppose we could use the large paper bags and make them fit our waste paper baskets. But there is the garbage. Well, what did people do? I suspect they didn't throw their kitchen garbage in the kitchen trash can and let it just sit for days until it was taken out. I think they just threw it outside every day, every meal if necessary. (And there is the compost heap, but I don't have one.

So what happens when/if I don't have plastic bags? Everything will be thrown directly into the garbage can that city waste management empties every week. And the can will need to be washed weekly. Other than that, not having plastic garbage bags is an inconvenience but it's not the end of the world.

I suspect that both plastic garbage bags and paper bags contain recycled materials just as our aluminum cans do.

If we want to get pissy about waste, how about batteries? The use of batteries has escalated in the extreme and is going up. Too many of them end up in landfills. And what kind of non-renewable resources are going in to them?

 

With the curbside single stream recycling we have in my neighborhood, there is not all that much 'garbage' in the first place. For recycling we don't have to wash, sort, or peel anything. Just place it all in one container for recycling, and the recycler sorts out the paper metal and glass. Food scraps get composted. That leaves very little for the actual trash can which is lined with a recycled paper shopping bag once a week. It's so natural and hassle free that not recycling while traveling is uncomfortable. The next step is to make purchases based more on packaging, or really, the lack of it. Oh, and avoiding purchases of things like I saw yesterday...cookies in a metal can.

 

Our town requires we use plastic bags for garbage in the name of protecting the environment and charging us a buck per bag...

 

There are bio bags out there. The corn-based bags just need to come down in price so more stores will use them. Organic Family of Farms in the Bay Are uses them. They are 100% biodegradable and compostable.

BioBags

 

I understand... But my town stamps the bags and resells them to us.... We have no choice if we want our trash picked up.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tnthub @ May 12 2007, 10:40 AM) [snapback]440639[/snapback]</div>

I'm sorry, I did not mean them as an alternative for you but for retail stores and even your municipalities. The bags can be colored and printed for whatever is required and they look like normal bags.

"All of the Mater-Biâ„¢ grades:

are completely biodegradable in different environments: in composting, in the soil, in fresh and in salt water;
can be worked using the same processes as for traditional plastics and with similar output;
can be printed on, using normal inks and printing techniques, without the need for crown treatment;
can be colored in bulk, using biodegradable Master-batches;
are intrinsically anti-static;
can be sterilized using gamma rays. "



Totes: 2.2 mil thick.




With a bunch of different products it would be easy to arm yourself with info to possibly get local municipalities to make the switch. If cost is bearable anyway.

"Recently, the city of San Francisco selected BioBag to promote their residential food waste collection program. The city is sending 100,000 rolls of BioBags to residents within the county to help educate consumers on the importance of diverting food and other biodegradable waste from entering landfills. San Francisco residents can now purchase additional supplies at over 100 outlets in the bay area. BioBag is proud to be a partner in this important effort."

 

The most widely quoted figure for marine animal deaths caused by plastic bags is 100,000/year. Birds are estimated at 2 million. Didn't dig for land animal figures.

I use canvas bags as often as possible. If I forget to take them, the plastic bags I receive are returned to the store for recycling. Food and paper waste goes into the compost. Newspapers, cans, bottles and plastic are recycled by the city.

Yes, the half-bag or so I have of weekly trash goes into a plastic bag for now. I'll be looking into those bio-bags as soon as the stuff I have runs out.

It's not really a big adjustment and it feels good.

 

We use cloth bags sold by our municipality. They cost us a $1 ea. For every plastic bag we don't use at the grocery store the store rebates us $0.05. Not much, but when you think about how many of those bags one can go through, it's actually not trivial.

The number that I've seen is 500 billion plastic bags are produced annually. The vast majority are used once and discarded. If that's not waste I don't know what is.

 

In the 'paper or plastic' debate, I have heard, and it made sense to me, that (unless you are doing your part with canvas totes) you should choose the one that can be recycled in your area. Some places recycle the paper, some the plastic (some both, no doubt). Here we can only recycle paper bags, but we reuse paper and plastic in our farm operation, so we get at least one more use out of each bag we handle.

The end of oil-based plastic will not be the end of plastic since, as has been stated in earlier posts, there are other ways to make it (and new ways will come along as the need increases).

Jim

 

That does make sense. Our community has several sources for recycling plastic bags. Some of the bags we use as trashcan liners and the rest we take to recycle. I wonder how efficient the recycling of plastic bags are and if most current plastic bags use post-consumer waste?

Grocery store does sell some of those canvas bags, which we have one that someone gave us. It costs $2 and they give you a .05 credit per bag. I haven't convinced the wife to get another one (two would probably cover the bulk of our weekly purchases). It is annoying to have to remind them to apply the credit and it probably doesn't make economic sense (It takes 40 trips to make up the cost of the bag). She tries to assuage my guilt by reminding me that we reuse some and recycle the rest, which often works, but maybe I am being too much of a pushover.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(micheal @ May 14 2007, 10:10 AM) [snapback]441689[/snapback]</div>

We have about 15 of the things (our's were only $1 ea) and they've saved us a lot of garbage space. My wife uses them weekly so they're already close to paying for themselves. The time that they save (not having to recycle so many plastic bags) is worth far more than the $1 they save.

 

Plastic bags and milk cartons readily decompose in UV light. However, plastic is oil-based, a nonrenewable, nonsustainable resource.

We need to emphasize sustainable, renewable (vs. single use) products throughout commerce. Cheaper, more cost-effective, more environmentally sound and much more responsible.

 

To help save wildlife from the ravages of our plastic discards, one can cut the handles of plastic shopping bags and cut the plastic rings of the soda pop packs holders. These loops get stuck around the necks of wildlife and they can be strangled by this. Unfortunately, it's not going to help with their accidental digestion.

I'm all about canvas bags. They're far more convenient and strong than traditional grocery bags.

I've tried the biodegradable garbage bags but stopped using them when I learned that they require light to efficiently degrade. But, for anyone interested in them, they were as strong and useful as the other plastic garbage bags I've used. Right now I use seventh generations recycled plastic garbage bags. They get the job done acceptably.

 

I feel like an idiot when I have to get paper or plastic bags at the store. They're much weaker, I worry about the handles breaking on either, even when they're not overloaded, and double-bagging makes me mad because it just highlights the fact that the product most commonly used for the task of carrying groceries is inadequate in design and construction.

If you had to put twice the amount of gas in your Prius in order to get anywhere, you'd probably get rid of the Prius in a heartbeat. Get some canvas or otherwise permanent bags, and you'll be carrying a lot more goods without the clutter of saving bags for recycling, or the guilt of throwing them away!

My area doesn't do credits for plastic bags, but one that I've heard of that I like better is a 5 cent credit to a charity, rather than 5 cents off your purchase.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ May 14 2007, 01:29 PM) [snapback]441708[/snapback]</div>

I wish ours were $1, then would have several more. We used to have plastic bags stacking up, but now that our grocery store recycles them we can just take our extras when we go shopping every week. Unfortunately, not having to spend the extra time to go to Wal-Mart just to recycle them will probably make it harder to convince the wife to buy several more canvas bags. $2 a bag seems like a lot IMO, but it could just me being really cheap.

 

I'm sure you could find them elsewhere for less that $2. We used to recycle the plastic bags when we lived in Tucson because, like where you are, the grocery stores had recycling bins for them. So far, we've only found one store in Denver, near us, that takes them. That store is a bit further away then 2 others, so we never shop there. So we'd have to make a special trip there to recycle bags (the recycling center doesn't take them and neither does the curb side recycler) so it's a pain. Using the bags is way better than recycling and, for us at least, it's easier and cheaper too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ May 12 2007, 09:38 AM) [snapback]440564[/snapback]</div>

I think that, except for the Bio-Bags and like that, plastic in general doesn't actually decompose. As I understand it, the bag may break down into smaller and smaller pieces, but these pieces are still *pieces of plastic*...unlike paper or other biodegradables, which turn into simpler elements with the passage of time.

Also, I've heard that plastic bags tend to encapsulate landfill-destined trash, which makes it more difficult for that trash to undergo the normal decomposition process.

The other bummer with them is that they're so light and strong...they can be lifted and can travel distances through the air, and can end up entangling wildlife.

 

I like the paper bags, since I use them for many other uses. Kindling bags, recycling bags to hold our cans, garbage can bags. When they break or get nasty, you recycle them. But most stores seem to have stopped asking and give you plastic, since it is SOOO much cheaper. So we have to bring a bag of plastic bags to the grocery store once a month to recycle them. I am amazed at how much my garbage stream has reduced over the last 10 years with simple recycling techniques. My recycling container usually has twice the stuff as my garbage container.

My weakness is the diaper pail. Gotta have a plastic liner (not to mention the disposable diapers). Terribly wasteful, but cloth diapers are just not feasable when you're shuttling kids around between grandparents nice enough to help with our two job family.

 

I agree that plastic bags are getting too much attention from the politicians, when you consider the car manufacturers can churn out gas guzzlers. People should be able, and are able, to sort out there own shopping bags - but it is also true that 99% don't. Take a canvas bag or two for the big shop and keep a plastic bag folded in a jacket pocket for ad-hoc shopping. As for the price, it is not an issue, just get a canvas bag with a nice design or one from a charity. PriusChat bag anyone?

Are paper bags better than plastic, not much in it in terms of energy and resources but plastic is far more of a litter problem and the suffocation warning written on the side can't be read by small children or animals alike.