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Why the Prius is a success

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by njkayaker, Aug 3, 2006.

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  1. njkayaker

    njkayaker New Member

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    Maybe this isn't news but it seems to me that Toyota managed to do a bunch of things "right" with the current Prius. These things worked together rather remarkably well to make the Prius a success, especially compared to other hybrids.

    Keep in mind that my point is related to doing the "right" things as a package. (It's also possible that I'm missing stuff.)

    1) Toyota made it. Toyota's reputation for quality and reliability counteracts the standard "hybrids are too complex to be reliable" criticism.

    1a) The Prius is made in Japan. No other country has a reputation for "funky/innovative" technology and electronics.

    1b) The Prius actually has "funky/innovative" technology and electronics. The Civic hybrid uses more conventional technology (very effectively, in the current model) but its appeal is less than the Prius as a result.

    2) It's a generally useful car (unlike the Honda Insite). The Prius is a car that works quite well as an "only car".

    2a) It's not a "commuter car" (like the Insite). The market for commuter cars in the US is tiny and the people who buy them are often concidered a little-bit strange. Note that the Insite looks like a commuter car. (I like the Honda Insite.)

    3) It doesn't look too weird. The styling of the Prius is fairly conservative (compare it to the Honda Insite).

    4) The Prius looks distinctive. The distinct look of the Prius is such that it also looks "technologically advanced" and "efficient". I think Toyota struck a remarkable balance here. If people are paying a premium for the hybrid stuff, they want other people to know it. This is one reason that the Prius is more successful than Honda Civic hybrid (even though the Civic a good car). Note that the coefficient of drag of the Prius is only 0.01 better than the new Camry (both have excellent CD numbers). One problem with the original Prius is that it looked like an Echo (a cheap car).

    5) The Prius only comes in a hybrid model. This backs up the distinctive look and it makes economic comparisons to alternatives more difficult. The Civic makes it much easier to determine what you are getting for the extra cost of the hybrid stuff.

    6) The Prius gets good gas mileage. This is obvious but there has to be a substantial and notable improvement over non-hybrid vehicles. Part of the reason the Camry and Accord hybrids aren't successful is that the hybrid stuff adds a big cost for little improvement in MPG compared to the standard 4 cylinder versions.

    7) The other problem with the Camry and Accord hybrids is that they look just like the non-hybrid versions! (Hybrid SUVs are especially cursed by looking the same as their non-hybrid counterparts because it looks like one is driving an inefficient SUV!)

    8) The performance of the Prius is good. Americans are so obsessed with car performance that a car that has poor acceleration or can't cruise at 80mph on the highway is cursed.

    9) The Prius is not too expensive nor is it too cheap. If the Prius were expensive, there would be no real savings in the high MPG. If it was too cheap, it would have been just an econobox.

    10) It isn't a "small" car. Small cars in the US are considered unsafe or cheap or uncomfortable.

    11) The Prius managed to be classified as a "midsize" car. While there's some sort of relationship between useful passenger volume and vehicle "classes", it's not exact. That is, it's not uncommon for two obviously differently-sized cars (eg, the Audi A3 and A4) to be in the same class. The Prius is in the same midsize class as the Camry but the obvious impression is that the Camry is a bigger car. I suspect that Toyota didn't plan to have the Prius classified as a "midsize" car. I think they were just lucky (Toyota is certainly smart enough to have done this intentionally). There are two characteristics that allowed the Prius to be classified in the larger "midsized" class: 1) the curvature of the roofline which adds volume (most other cars have a much more planar horizontal roofline) and the "hatchback" rear. I believe the Prius would not have been a "midsize" car if it had a trunk!
     
    #1 njkayaker, Aug 3, 2006
  2. jw_teacher

    jw_teacher Junior Member

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    That is exactly why Toyota's Prius is the runaway winner in hybrid purchases. Toyota did the things you mentioned to differentiate themselves in the market. The result is they have turned their gem into a status symbol in the mainstream. A versatile, practical car with fantastic gas mileage and a unique body design that defines the definition of a hybrid is what Toyota has people perceiving when they see a Prius.
     
    #2 jw_teacher, Aug 3, 2006
  3. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    You've hit the nail right on the head. I couldn't agree more! :D

    Tom
     
    #3 qbee42, Aug 3, 2006
  4. ajprius

    ajprius New Member

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    We test drove the new civic hybrid and although it's a nice vehicle, well put together and performance of the hybrid system seems good, we couldn't get over the fact that it looked and felt like any other car we had.

    (Aside from the Delta Airlines interior.) :blink:

    The one thing that really set the prius apart from the rest was that it isn't ashamed to be a hybrid. It's different and it doesn't try to hide that fact behind conventional styling and feel.

    Not only that, but it goes well beyond conventional vehicles. The car just continues to amaze us with it's well designed and thoughtful details.

    That's what makes it great! :p
     
    #4 ajprius, Aug 3, 2006
  5. HokieHybrid

    HokieHybrid New Member

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    I disagree on the comment about it being a disadvantage to be similar to a standard car. If the Civic Hybrid had the mileage the Prius can acheive, I think it would be just as successful. I think Toyota reliability and the high mileage output are the keys to the success of the Prius. I'd gladly drive the Escape hybrid if it got 50 miles to the gallon, and Ford had a longer history in the hybrid market. While I love my Prius and the way it rides....there are many occasions where I wish for just a bit more ground clearance.

    95% of the time my Prius is exactly the right car for me. But that other 5% I'm glad for friends and family with trucks and SUVs.
     
    #5 HokieHybrid, Aug 3, 2006
  6. santoro1

    santoro1 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HokieHybrid @ Aug 3 2006, 12:31 PM) [snapback]297005[/snapback]</div>
    Being a Prius owner all of 9 days I am amazed at the amount of people that give your vehicle "the look".. It's one of amazement. You can tell they are trying to figure out... what is it..This was especially true this morning as I was pulling out of a parking space at a local store. Of course, I was moving so slowly that the engine hadn't started yet, so the car was moving, but wait...there was no engine sound...I thought it was pretty funny to see their expressions...And then there are those who are a bit more forward...They will stop me and ask..what kind of car is that? I will usually play a little bit and say ..its a Toyota...HA...Then of course, they ask what kind of gas mileage, etc... But getting to the point of this thread...The Prius has a distinctive look to it. And every person that has verbalized their thoughts to me have said...WOW a lot of car for the money. What nice features. A backup camera too! You have to be kidding.... Even my dad who is very critical of cars, products, etc noted that "this is some car..It has a lot of features I would have never thought Toyota would have put in a "hybrid"....So the perception is that if it is a hybrid it has to be no frills and it has to have no horsepower... Well, Toyota did a good job of dealing with both of those issues...
     
    #6 santoro1, Aug 3, 2006
  7. yauman

    yauman New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HokieHybrid @ Aug 3 2006, 09:31 AM) [snapback]297005[/snapback]</div>
    I own a 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid (CVT) and a 2005 Prius. I drive the HCH and my wife drives the Prius. Earlier this year, just for ha-ha, I drove the HCH and the Prius to work on alternate weeks for two months. My commute is exactly 20 miles each way and I leave the same time to work and from work. Having done for for a couple of month, I can definitifly say I get better mileage on the HCH. Without trying very hard, I get 48mpg on the low side and 53 on the high side driving the HCH. With the Prius, I have to try very hard to get over 49mpg - I've never gotten over 50. The low was 45mpg.

    I like the Prius for the reason that driving it tells me that I am driving a Hybrid - but it's ugly. Yes, the HCH is "normal" and I don't get the feeling I've driving a hybrid.
     
    #7 yauman, Aug 3, 2006
  8. ajprius

    ajprius New Member

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    Exactly, I don't think there is a 'disadvantage' in being conventional or standard as you say... but for me that's boring. Why chose Vanilla, when I can have New York Super Fudge Chunk. But that's just me... lots of people like standard, being comfortable in the norm.
     
    #8 ajprius, Aug 3, 2006
  9. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yauman @ Aug 3 2006, 11:53 AM) [snapback]297032[/snapback]</div>
    What speeds does that commute include?

    Civic-Hybrid is known for delivering impressive highway-only cruising.

    The technology within Civic-Hybrid is limited. Of course with all the talk about plug-in hybrids lately, that is becoming increasingly easier to see. It simply wasn't designed to support extensive use of electric drive... hence the type "assist".
     
    #9 john1701a, Aug 3, 2006
  10. sl7vk

    sl7vk Member

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    #10 sl7vk, Aug 3, 2006
  11. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Aug 3 2006, 01:06 PM) [snapback]297040[/snapback]</div>
    And given that not one plug-in hybrid is being sold by a commercial automaker, not one car is really capable of supporting it as-is (no, the prius with it's 3 mile EV range, at best, is not) and there isn't anything more than a niche of a niche market for people upgrading, what's the problem?

    If it gets the same results, which the HCH does, it's just as good.
     
    #11 Jonnycat26, Aug 3, 2006
  12. wstander

    wstander New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ajprius @ Aug 3 2006, 10:02 AM) [snapback]297036[/snapback]</div>

    Besides, I am INSIDE the car; I cannot see how weird/normal the car is from the best seat in the car, mine!

    I had the little tiny compact HCH; now I have a roomy, midsized Prius that gets better mileage for me, where I drive, and how I drive.

    YMMV :) :)
     
    #12 wstander, Aug 3, 2006
  13. njkayaker

    njkayaker New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HokieHybrid @ Aug 3 2006, 12:31 PM) [snapback]297005[/snapback]</div>
    The Civic Hybrid mileage isn't really that far off from the Prius (see what Hot_Georgia does with his). Everybody talks about the Prius but nobody talks about the Honda.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HokieHybrid @ Aug 3 2006, 12:31 PM) [snapback]297005[/snapback]</div>
    Except that it probably would not get 50mpg (like the Prius).
     
    #13 njkayaker, Aug 3, 2006
  14. theorist

    theorist Member

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    Hatch space!

    This is the reason that we chose the Prius over the Civic. We strongly prefered the handling and road feel of the 2006 Civic hybrid, but we couldn't imagine fitting stuff for the Children's Theater Company that my wife directs in the hybrid Civic's very tiny trunk with no folding rear seat.
     
    #14 theorist, Aug 3, 2006
  15. njkayaker

    njkayaker New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ajprius @ Aug 3 2006, 01:02 PM) [snapback]297036[/snapback]</div>
    Generally, some one who is going to select a conventional car is not going to select a hybrid. Keep in mind that it's easy to find exceptions. Generally, if some one is going to take the risk of buying a hybrid, they want other people to know about it.
     
    #15 njkayaker, Aug 3, 2006
  16. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(njkayaker @ Aug 3 2006, 09:42 AM) [snapback]296936[/snapback]</div>
    My prius is my first Toyota, all Fords before this. My 6.5 year old, 111,000 miles F250 never developed the squeeking annoying sounds thing. My Prius annoys me with the elbow squeek on the driver door panel, and an additional similar thing in the airbag department straight up from the elbow problem. This Toyota is not 'tight'. Toyota's reputation is a level better than my toyota product.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(njkayaker @ Aug 3 2006, 09:42 AM) [snapback]296936[/snapback]</div>
    Mine is a commuter car.. If I use it for something else, that's outside of it's intent.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(njkayaker @ Aug 3 2006, 09:42 AM) [snapback]296936[/snapback]</div>
    People tell me it looks weird. But, if it gets good mileage, then who cares.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(njkayaker @ Aug 3 2006, 09:42 AM) [snapback]296936[/snapback]</div>
    Makes me wonder if it came just with the 1.5 liter engine and the CVT with no hybrid, would it get 45? It would be a lot lighter and cheaper to build. We could skip the whole hybrid thing and save 5k on the sticker price? Maybe that's what the Yaris is..


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(njkayaker @ Aug 3 2006, 09:42 AM) [snapback]296936[/snapback]</div>
    It's a small car. I've watched some of the crash scene things and that gives me hope it will do ok if I ever get in a crash, but in any case, it is small. There is not a lot of car to protect you when you get crashed up with something bigger. Good luck if you do, I don't really get a 'safe' feeling from riding in it. For a commuter car, it's big enough to commute in. If you're having a crash up derby, I'll pick a crown-vick.

    I think it's odd for it to be a mid-size car also.


    I'm not sure where you come to this idealistic view of the Prius and Toyota, and it doesn't matter. You're there, and you say stuff like this, and all us Ford drivers wonder if it could really be true. Then, one day about 15 years later, I end up in a Toyota and I don't really feel like this car is all 'tight' and finely manufactured. It's just a car... I have my issues with the quality on the details. If it runs 200,000 miles, then the drivetrain has the quality you speak of. As far as the interior and supreriority of build, I'm totally not with you on this.
     
    #16 daronspicher, Aug 3, 2006
  17. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 3 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]297071[/snapback]</div>
    Quiet, you'll stir up the natives with that talk!

    I concur with you. The Prius is my first toyota, and I have to say I don't see the quality that Toyota was supposedly famous for. Like you, I have a few annoying squeaks. And I also see a lot of uneven gaps in panels and the car just doesn't have that 'tight' feeling I've had in my last few cars.

    Based on a lot of Camry reviews, I get the impression the new Camry is the same way.
     
    #17 Jonnycat26, Aug 3, 2006
  18. njkayaker

    njkayaker New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 3 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]297071[/snapback]</div>
    No point here. Lots of people complain about Fords. (I like Fords just fine). Since problems are statistical, some one will have a problem with any car regardless of the reliablity. Keep in mind that I'm talking about the "reputation" for reliability not the "fact". There could be a disparity between the two. If Toyota is, in fact, losing reliability, that will hurt Toyota in the long run as it did for the US manufacturers.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 3 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]297071[/snapback]</div>
    No point here. Any car can be used for commuting. You are an exception here. By "commuter cars", I mean cars like the Honda Insight and the Smart which are too small for anything but commiting. These cars have a very small market. The Prius isn't like either of these.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 3 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]297071[/snapback]</div>
    No point here. It doesn't look as weird as the Honda Insight.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 3 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]297071[/snapback]</div>
    You could be right here but Americans would complain about the acceleration.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 3 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]297071[/snapback]</div>
    Yes, is a small car but the interior space is quite good. It's still bigger that the Yaris. And I'm talking about impressions.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 3 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]297071[/snapback]</div>
    I'm not being idealistic at all. I'm making observations about a "marketing" phenomena. I know there is a lot of subjectivity in what is going on with the Prius (or any car).


    I'm talking about the general case and you are providing one example to contradict it. One can always find rare exceptions but the exceptions don't invalidate the general case. Why do people do this?
     
    #18 njkayaker, Aug 3, 2006
  19. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    I'd like to add low emissions to the list of reasons. Also, the Prius seems to appeal to both the anti-car crowd and the techno fans.
     
    #19 hyo silver, Aug 3, 2006
  20. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(njkayaker @ Aug 3 2006, 01:20 PM) [snapback]297095[/snapback]</div>
    I guess it just sucks that I got the only crappy toyota ever built...

    And so did johnnycat and those camry owners...

    But the rest of you get the good ones?

    And, how did Johnnycat and I both get the only bad Toyota?

    Who gets to be the bad example, is it Johnnycat or is it me... Dang logic.. It doesn't work just like my squeeks in my Toyota.. Maybe in a parallel universe we can both be the only one with a loosely build toyota..
     
    #20 daronspicher, Aug 3, 2006
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