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Why the Prius is absolutely amazing

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by bsoft, Apr 10, 2006.

  1. bsoft

    bsoft New Member

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    I've been lurking around PriusChat for over two years now, reading all the info that I could find and trying to learn as much as possible about the Prius.

    Let me introduce myself - I'm an engineering student at the University of Colorado, though I'm not a 'hippie', at least not in the traditional sense. My father is a EE, and I'm majoring in ECE, so you can see why the Prius has a certain attraction. I believe in environmentalism, but not at any cost - I believe that engineering is the only real solution to our environmental problems, which is why I'm so supportive of technologies like next-generation nuclear reactors (e.g. pebble bed), high-efficency HVAC and other building controls, co-generation (the University of Colorado produces 37MW of electric power and uses the waste steam to heat buildings), and, of course, advanced vehicles like the Prius.

    As an ECE, I'm the kind of person who will be engineering things like the Prius. EEs work on electronic systems, CS majors work on software, ECEs work on software that deals with hardware (firmware).

    The Prius is so amazing because it represents the future of the vehicle as we know it. The pundits like to tout HSD as "expensive", but from a systems engineering perspective it is a system that is simpler, less wear prone, and, ultimately, less expensive than a conventional transmission. Torque converters, clutches, and syncromeshes all share manufacturing complexity that simply does not exist in HSD. HSD also manages to replace the alternator, starter, and complex power steering systems that are common on vehicles today.

    My family has always been concerned about fuel economy; we have never owned (and will probably never own) an SUV, and our vehicles - while not the best - always delivered decent fuel economy. With the Colorado and Federal tax credits, I was able to convince the rest of my family to buy the first new car that they had ever purchased.

    Our package 7 2006 Prius was ordered in January and delivered early in March; we paid MSRP (in cash) but managed to get the paperwork fees and floor mat charge waived. I drove the vehicle off the lot with 8 miles on the odometer (and took a photograph).

    There are now over 800 miles on the vehicle; we've filled up once (51.8MPG; though this may be spurious due to an uneven fill level as compared to when we took delivery). I enjoy driving the vehicle more than I ever imagined I would. My 1997 Ford Taurus was sold one week after we got the Prius; it was a nice vehicle that I enjoyed driving, but it was nothing like the Prius.

    The Prius accelerates better than any vehicle that I've ever driven. As much as I like to improve my MPG, it's just too tempting when a ricer in a Civic pulls up on Harmony Ave. near Timberline (speed limit: 55) and decides to rev their engine. I sit, smile, and then outaccelerate them when the light turns. The Prius doesn't feel fast, but it hits 55 remarkibly quickly, without making much noise or fuss. That's probably why many don't seem to understand the power that this vehicle really has. When you push the accelerator, it goes - there's no fussing with the clutch and the transmission never decides to go into "crazy low gear" mode. Floor a typical automatic transmission vehicle, and it feels like you're riding a bucking bronco - the acceleration is jerky and uncontrolled. The Prius doesn't fuss, it doesn't "rev up", it simply moves - faster than most would believe is possible for a vehicle with a 74HP ICE.

    The Prius comes with a lot of bragging rights. Perhaps it's because my friends are all geeks, but even the most skeptical observer will gaze with awe as you get in the vehicle without pushing a button, then proceed to start the vehicle and drive away without a key. Everything about this car screams "futuristic" - from the aerodynamic body design to the touchscreen to the numerous computerized gadgets. One of the most telling comments was when I answered my first phone call with the Bluetooth speakerphone, and my friend simply remarked, "Wait, this thing has Bluetooth too?". Look at any luxury car advertisement and see the list of key features - RF keys, GPS, back-up camera, electronic climate control, voice commands, touchscreen - it's all here, in a vehicle that (after tax credits) cost us only $23,000.

    Everything about this vehicle exudes "cool". In an age of boxy SUVs, here's a vehicle that's extremely un-SUV. It's a vehicle that you can start with a push of a button, a vehicle with a digital speedometer in a quasi-heads-up-display, a vehicle where a color touchscreen comes standard, and a vehicle where the Miller-cycle 1NZ-FXE is only the start of the most innovative powertrain in the last 50 years. In a day and age where every vehicle works the same way, the Prius dares to be different.

    What if the Prius got 30MPG? Would it still be worth it? Absolutely. The Prius is a car with luxury-level technology without the luxury price. It's a technological showpiece that demonstrates that you don't need a "wood grained" interior or "heated leather seats" to have a voice-activated Bluetooth speakerphone. It's a car that is exceptionally safe for its weight class, a car that handles well and never fights the driver (except perhaps when you push things - traction control and VSC keep you from being stupid).

    The Prius is not "more powerful" (though it does accelerate well), it's not "bigger" (though it is quite roomy), and it's not "more capable". While every other manufactuer was figuring out how to increase the numbers that describe their vehicles, Toyota decided to build a vehicle that was smarter. Boeing and Airbus have been replacing mechanical systems with electronic systems for over 20 years. The result? Commercial aircraft have become significantly safer in the past 20 years. They fly further, use less fuel, are cheaper to make, and crash less often. The 787 won't even need bleed air from the engines, thanks to new electronic systems. The A380 has significantly less hydraulic piping and has far fewer valves because of localized electronically-controlled hydraulic systems. It is ironic that we think of a CPU with 110 million 65-nanometer components as "simple", but we only have to look at the price and reliability to know that it is the case. Toyota puts an 8-year (15 in some states) warranty on the HV system for a reason - it's unlikely that it will need repair. The Prius is one of the most reliable vehicles on the road, and it's because electronic components are inherently more predictable and more reliable than mechanical components. Quartz clocks are both cheaper and more precise than mechanical clocks. Fuel injection is better than carburation. Flash memory is faster and more reliable than mechanical storage devices, and it will eventually be cheaper as well.

    And HSD is more efficent, more reliable, and more versatile than a conventional transmission. Eventually, it will be cheaper as well.

    Sidenotes

    Currently tires are at 35/33, as specified on the doorjam. We may raise the pressure to 40/38 or 42/40, depending on how brave we are feeling.

    Motor oil is conventional 5W-30; we will take the vehicle for the free 1K oil change (with conventional oil) but will change the oil ourselves from then on (every 5K for warranty purposes) with Mobil 1.

    Color is Classic Silver Metallic.

    Pulse and glide has proven successful, but not as maitainable as using cruise control.

    Not planning on doing any modifications currently due to the warranty (though if it were up to me, I'd definitely do the NAV override, rear-camera switch, and EV mod).

    Not planning on getting the extended warranty.

    Regular gas is 85 octane in Colorado; Prius sips it down without a fuss.

    Looking at getting a 3rd smart-key transponder; anyone know where to get the best deal?
     
  2. jbarnhart

    jbarnhart New Member

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    Nice summary of the car, and very well phrased. Hope to see more posts from you in the future. And keep studying -- the world need more of us (engineers, that is).
     
  3. Sarge

    Sarge Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsoft @ Apr 10 2006, 04:55 AM) [snapback]237427[/snapback]</div>
    While I do not have engineering credentials as you, I agree completely with your writeup... I am more of a computer geek who now works in software marketing who just loves technology. :)

    I do not yet own a Prius, though hopefully I will in the next few months. My current car (96 Integra, 188K miles) has been getting expensive in maintenance/repairs as I have been saving up my downpayment, and I am just about at the point where the repairs do not justify keeping it, so I may as well sell it and get some decent return while I still can.

    Personally, I have been lurking 'round these parts since last fall, and I have nothing but good things to say about the people around here. I have learned more from here than I ever could have anywhere else. It's kinda funny to go to a dealer and talk to the moron sales people and you basically know more about the car than they do. ;)

    I also sometimes feel like I work for Toyota when talking to people abou cars and I tell them my intention to buy a Prius and you get that inevitable "why??", and I basically sell them on the idea and how the feature set and the lower maintenance, etc... makes it actually a pretty wise "investment" (as much as a depreciating asset like a car can be considered an "investment"), and that there is more to it than just saving gas.

    Anyway, nice post and hope to see more from you in the future!

    Kevin
     
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    I am also an EE with 30 years of design experience. Most of my work has been in the area you call ECE, but we didn't have those sort of programs when I went through engineering school (the 8080 was new in those days). I completely agree with your post. You did a very elegant job explaining why the Prius is so special. Thanks for the great post.

    As for an extra SKS fob, there are two 2005 fobs for sale on ebay. You would have to check and make sure they can be programmed for your 2006 Prius, and have the mechanical keys recut, but it could be a good deal.

    My 2006 black Prius package #7 is scheduled to be delivered this week ... huba huba!

    Tom
     
  5. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Member

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    What a great, positive, post! Thanks!

    I'm going to print it out and hand it to folks who stop and ask me about the car.
     
  6. Potential Buyer

    Potential Buyer New Member

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    I agree with your sentiment on how the HSD appeals to technophiles. I'm a computer programmer and I love the engineering behind Toyota's HSD. I currently have a Civic Hybrid but I hate how poorly implemented and sloppy the hybrid drive is, compared to Toyota's. I still like my car better than a Prius because I think Toyota is often clueless when it comes to the stuff not under the hood, but I'm looking at the upcoming Camry Hybrid as a hopeful best-of-both-worlds type of car.
     
  7. samoan_ridah

    samoan_ridah New Member

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    Great post! Makes me just that more glad I joined in on owning one of these great vehicles. The only thing that gets me is that I wish Toyota would have spoken with some of the interior designers over at Lexus to get some pointers on making the car more comfortable for its driver and passengers.

    It's as if they put 98% of their effort into everything you just listed above and then the final 2% into the comfort and ergonomics of the cabin.
     
  8. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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  9. ghostofjk

    ghostofjk New Member

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    You write too well to be an engineer. :)

    Why the "hippie" disclaimer? Just because you attend UC? I know Boulder has that aura, but does UC, too? I thought UC was about authoritarian football coaches and ski bunnies, too. B)
     
  10. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    That's a great write-up.

    You might want to consider Brian's BT stiffening plate as a mod. I thought it was well worth the price and made a difference in the feel of the car.
     
  11. brasche

    brasche Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Potential Buyer @ Apr 10 2006, 01:29 PM) [snapback]237558[/snapback]</div>
    I totally agree.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Potential Buyer @ Apr 10 2006, 01:29 PM) [snapback]237558[/snapback]</div>
    Poor seats, Poor MFD Programming, Lack of power options, Lackluster handling, ugh! The Prius could have been so much more than environmentally friendly basic transportation. It's my daily driver, but it will never replace my weekend car.
     
  12. gilahiker

    gilahiker New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 10 2006, 01:04 PM) [snapback]237614[/snapback]</div>
    I agree. Plus, the BT Stiffening Plate is not considered anything that might even remotely hurt the warranty. My dealership had no problem installing it and were very impressed with the BT plate.
     
  13. prius2006rocks

    prius2006rocks New Member

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    I agree. Just test drove on at the dealer for the first time. I was very pleasantly surprised at how awesome it did at merging onto the freeway, how quiet it could be, etc. I was VERY impressed and I am putting my order in soon! :) What a wonderful car! Toyota has it right!
     
  14. Kev1000000

    Kev1000000 New Member

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    That was probably the best "review" of the prius i have ever written.

    Fantastic Job, and welcome to PriusChat! :)
     
  15. bsoft

    bsoft New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brasche @ Apr 10 2006, 01:33 PM) [snapback]237638[/snapback]</div>
    Well, I personally find the seats to be excellent - they certainly aren't as "plush" as the seats on my former Taurus, but I find that I'm slumping less and my head is better protected by the headrest. We haven't taken any real road trips (longest trip so far has been Fort Collins to Denver and back), but I find them to be pretty comfortable during normal driving.

    As for power options, what precisely do you mean? About the only thing I can think of is power seats, which my Taurus had but I rarely used (though I can understand that they might be more useful to those who are shorter or exceptionally tall - I'm 6 feet 0 inches).

    And, as for handling, it's certainly a notch up from the Taurus, about equal to my friend's Subaru Legacy, and way better than large vehicles like the Ford Freestar minivan (company vehicle). If you're expecting it to be "sporty", of course you'll be disappointed. The stearing is decently precise and the suspension isn't soft but still does a good job of dampening road vibration. I certainly can't take corners as fast as the 97 Taurus (which was much lower to the ground, among other things), but that has more to do with the somewhat-overzealous VSC system than anything.

    The Prius is fun to drive, not because it has exceptional power or handling, but because it feels different. Accelerating without revving the engine. Braking without using the friction brakes. Beating riced Civics off the line.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Potential Buyer @ Apr 10 2006, 11:29 AM) [snapback]237558[/snapback]</div>
    Don't feel bad about owning a Civic Hybrid. A lot of very advanced engine technology went into that vehicle - Honda's approach to designing a hybrid powertrain is different, but it's still extremely valid. IMA is an excellent system that leverages Honda's leadership in engine technology and their investments in transmission technology.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ Apr 10 2006, 01:02 PM) [snapback]237611[/snapback]</div>
    I am, quite thankfully, none of the above. The reputation of CU Boulder sutdents as "hippies" goes far and wide, perhaps because of programs like South Park (see the hippie music festival episode, for example) which, incidentally, was created by two CU Boulder graduates.

    In reality, we're pretty much an average university. CSU in Fort Collins, CO, actually recycles more than we do. We have a farily strong Young Republican group. Most professors are apolitical.

    The rumors about Colorado School of Mines students being crazy explosive experts, however, are certainly true. It's always interesting to get an IM from a Mines student telling me about how they reproduced another explosive using ingredients from the chemistry stockroom. Interesting and scary.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Apr 10 2006, 07:30 AM) [snapback]237457[/snapback]</div>
    FYI, you may be interested to hear that the ECE/EE/CS course "Computers as Components" still teaches programming using M68000 assembly.

    As the quote from my ECE advisor goes:

    "You can teach an engineer to program, but you can't teach a programmer to engineer"

    The ECE curriculum at CU follows the EE curriculum, but it has fewer electives and more required CS courses. The idea is to produce EE majors who also have experience in proper software engineering practices. We also do some very cool things that would not have been possible 10 years ago - senior ECE majors actually design and implement (using an FPGA) their own CPU and ISA, then create an assembler for it and write a demonstration program.
     
  16. bsoft

    bsoft New Member

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    There were a lot of false promises about nuclear power early on - like a meltdown being impossible or it being able to produce energy that was "two cheap to meter". In the 70s and 80s, there was a backlash against nuclear power as the real issues became clear.

    20 years later, nuclear power is still generating more than 20% of US power needs (despite the fact that no new plants have been built in the US in almost 3 decades).

    The waste "problem" is often blown out of proportion. While the waste is both long-lasting and dangerous, so is the waste generated by coal power plants (which release more radioactive material than nuclear plants produce, MWh for MWh), chemical facilities, and other industrial facilities. Nuclear power is the only large-scale energy production method that inherently includes the disposal of waste in the cost of the energy. High-level waste is low in volume and can be contained with proper procedures.

    In addition, reprocessing greatly reduces the already low volume of waste generated, and altough it is not done in the US due to concerns of nuclear proliferation, it is widely used in countries like France to reduce the waste disposal problem.

    Every method of energy production produces waste. The question is the quantity produced and the dangers that the waste poses to the environment and other people. Nuclear waste is highly dangerous, but very low in quantity. Fossil-fuel powered plants produce that is less dangerous but extremely high in volume. Nuclear waste can - and must - be kept isolated from the environment. That, however, is a small challenge compared to attempting to contain the waste produced by fossil-fuels.

    The other question about nuclear power is safety. Thankfully, years of experience with nuclear power have lead to reactors that are passively safe. A passively safe reactor does not rely on active control systems to operate safely - the equilibrium state is a safe state. GE's ESBWR, pebble-bed reactors, and other designs are passively safe which reduces the chance that multiple failures could lead to a meltdown.

    There are no easy answers to our energy problems. Conservation works well in the short-term, as do more efficent designs (like the Prius). But as the developing world begins to demand the standard of living that we already enjoy, world energy usage will inevitably increase. Renewable sources, such as wind, can clearly play a role in the overall energy ecosystem, but renewables alone are not sufficent to practically displace hydrocarbon fuels. Thus, we come to a question - do we continue burning hydrocarbons and accept their negative effects (including air pollution, the potential of global climate change, and the potential of resource exhaustion), do we wait for a future technology to save us (fusion, perhaps?), or do we use a proven technology and invest the necessary money and resource to reduce its potential risks and manage its environmental impact. MWh for MWh, no technology produces less waste or costs fewer lives than nuclear power. Not coal, not hydro, not natural gas, not solar, not wind. That sounds like a win to me.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(samoan_ridah @ Apr 10 2006, 11:47 AM) [snapback]237567[/snapback]</div>
    I guess that depends on what you're used to driving. Coming from a Ford Taurus, it's a step up for me - my biggest complaint would probably have to be that the climate control is a bit fiddly (it's a lot easier to just turn nobs than it is to hit "Climate" and choose a vent setting - I find that I just leave it on "Auto" because it's a pain to change.

    It sounds like the hybrid Camry might be right up your alley - or perhaps the new Lexus hybrid car that's coming in 2007. The Prius puts a lot of high-tech stuff into a vehicle that's only about as expensive as a V6 Camry, so there's not as much room in the budget for the usual upgrades on mid-range vehicles. I'm sure we all want a power front seat, telescoping steering wheel, 4-wheel disc brakes, or better OEM tires, but I'm not so sure that we would pay $5,000 more for all that. Fortunately, with the Camry Hybrid, now we have the option to.
     
  17. lhfox1

    lhfox1 New Member

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    :) I'm trying to decide whether to purchase a Prius or the new Camry Hybrid. The Camry looks like it will have far better acceleration which is a concern of mine.

    I currently own a car with a large v8 engine and I want to make sure I can safely enter the freeways in Los Angeles and get out a difficult situation with ease. Do you think the Prius is adequate or should I wait for the Camry?
     
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Lorraine, test drive both. Coming from a V8, I understand why you might be concerned with a tiny 1.5 litre engine with 4 cylinders (although that's considered large for a small car in Europe/Asia). Test the Prius and see if it accelerates at a rate that you're satisfied. Just remember that both the Camry Hybrid and the Prius come with CVT transmissions so you won't get the push back into your seat when you floor it but just look at the speedo and you're probably going faster than you intended to.
     
  19. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    The Prius is more than able to accellerate and merge into traffic. 0-60 in 10 seconds. The Hybrid camry wil be a second and half better.

    The Prius will be WAY better for utility (hatchback), environment (MPG, low emissions), and your pocketbook (base price, gas cost, etc.)

    the Camry hybrid will be a nice car for sure. Not as versatile, not as good MPG, a little more expensive. More mainstream look, bit more 'plush' (this may be subjective, too).

    I would not worry about accelleration times. The hybrid system in both cars does the job well.
     
  20. tomdeimos

    tomdeimos New Member

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    Lots of cars today can do 0-60 in the 4 to 6 second range. So if you buy a slow car that takes more why worry about if it is 8 seconds or 12 seconds? Someone behind you will be upset you aren't going faster either way.