Wife says our new Gen 4 is slower than our Gen 2...

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by sorka, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    She's not one to usually complain about power and doesn't really care for it. She couldn't understand my P85D purchase and the $5K (highly discounted upgrade) to Ludicrous.

    But her first complaint in our 2019 limited when she first drove it is that it's slower off the line than our gen II which has 314K miles on it so it's already slower than it was when brand new due to the fact that higher cell IR won't allow much power due to more voltage drop when new.

    And this is WITH power mode on. That's right. I already had power mode selected for her first drive.

    To me, because I'm used to driving a car that does 0-60 in 2.85 seconds, the new prius feel just as slow as the old one. I don't notice any difference other than with both cars, slamming the pedal all the way down pretty much does nothing.

    Is she right? Is it perception? The charge state of the traction battery was at half bars pretty much the entire time during her test drive. Is it a temperature thing? Lithium Ion batteries don't perform well until the warm up while nimh batteries are great in the cold (which is why the awd-e has those instead of the lighter li ion cells).
     
  2. tucatz

    tucatz Active Member

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    ?? A Tesla P85D and a prius are not the same. Anything. Methinks you’re in a Tesla high speed technology loop. Step back away from the big trucks in the valley. Take a deep breath and slow down. It’s okay.
     
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  3. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Besides stating the obvious what does that have to do with the question ;)
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think i read that toyota backed off the power a bit to increase mpg's.

    there's a 0-60 or quarter mile thread here somewhere
     
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  5. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    The Gen-4 in most people's opinion drives much sportier and quicker than the Gen-3. The Gen-3 was known to be a tad quicker/faster than the Gen-2 when new, somewhat reduced after the inverter recall firmware update to limit the EV-boost power.

    So I'd say it is all perception. It could be silly things like the tires are crappy and underinflated along with 3 people being it for a test drive versus just her in well worn tires. Things like that. None of the generations are much quicker than the previous, but the Gen-2 is most definitely not apples-for-apples faster than the Gen-4.
     
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  6. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

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    I was going thru my pictures and I found screenshots of my 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. I did a test one year ago this week, 90 days after the installation of the Gen 4 shortblock in my 2010. And then back in May, 60 days after the F0R recall. 10.25 to 60 and 17.84 for the 1/4 mile for one year ago. Then 10.79 and 18.088 in May, post power reduction. So this is not an exact recreation of temps and such, but it does give numbers as to how the Gen 3 was affected by the power reduction recall.
     
  7. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Huh - I drove a Gen 2 back in the time - and, no it was such a poor drive that I couldn't live with it - I bought a FOCUS.

    Gen 3 - ditto - though it was considerably better than Gen 2 - I bought a FIESTA.

    Gen 4 - test-drove, this is more like it!!! Yes, good drive, like chalk and cheese over a Gen 2 or 3. No, not as sporty as a FOCUS, but much better fuel efficiency seeing FORD stopped bringing in Diesel FIESTA or FOCUS - I bought Gen 4.
     
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  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The 17” tires on the Gen 3 and 4 will result in slightly slower times than their 15” counterpart but it should be only noticeable with a stopwatch. Both are in the 10 sec range (despite Toyota’s advertised 9.8 sec for the Gen 3 and 10.5 sec for the Gen 2).

    It should be the same as the Gen 2 (but 0-20mph should feel quicker as the Gen 4 is tuned for more city driving with greater torque “down low”)

    I can’t remember who said it but for the Gen 4, 0-30 is quicker and 30-60 is slower (so the net 0-60 is the same but the curve is different).
     
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  9. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    It feels like that might be backwards. Drove it more today keeping my wife's observations in mind. It feels slightly slower from 0-30 and slightly faster than the gen 2 from 30-60.

    I'm very nearly ready to pull out my vbox and figure it out for real.

    Not sure why that should be the case. The diameter of the 15" 195R65 is 24.98" while the 17" 215R45 diameter is 24.62 or about 1/3" shorter.

    Maybe the taller sidewall compresses more? Maybe I shouldn't have filled up my 17" wheels from 32 psi to 40 psi?
     
    #9 sorka, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2019
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  10. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Heavier and worse aero at speed.

    Seat of the pants, Gen 4 feels quicker off the line than either Gen 2 or 3 - not sure about at higher speeds, I've usually eased off by then.
     
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Don't forget the extra weight of the alloy wheels and the wider tread.

    I recall MotorTrend testing the 2010 Prius and they had the 2010 V with the 17" alloys and their numbers were slower than C/D.
     
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  12. Seamaster

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    My new fourth generation Prius (on 15” wheels) feels very much slower than my third generation-based Lexus CT-200h it has just replaced.
     
  13. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Which is interesting in the the CTs tested and published 0-60 is 10.2 seconds which is a tad slower than the 4th gen prius.
     
  14. kithmo

    kithmo Couch Potato

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    SWMBO has a Gen 2 and it does feel more sprightly off the mark, when pushed, than both the Gen 4 and the Gen 3 I used to have. It seems like the ECVT revving/slipping effect is less pronounced in the Gen 2.
     
  15. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    I think it's probably strictly a function of the smaller MG2 in the gen 3 and 4 than the gen 2.
     
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  16. meeder

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    MG2 is smaller and has less power and torque but it revs a lot higher so combined with the gear reduction it shouldn't be a huge difference.
     
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  17. DC_2004_Prius

    DC_2004_Prius Junior Member

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    i am a long time gen 2 owner - 2004 - and about to buy a gen 4 2017 three touring. drove it today and I feel like it was a good bit quicker than my gen 2. - some of it may be the overall more sporty feel of the tight suspension/17" tires on the three touring, and power mode? right off the line (0-20mph?) the gen 2 may be equal or faster - and the gen 2 always impressed me when i stomped on it from 40-60) but the combo of the 2017 tight handling and power mode and acceleration definitely felt faster than our gen 2 overall and at higher speeds. but i must say our gen 2 still drives nice. yes the little gas engine winds on up loudly when you need to step on it - but it can giddy up more than many people think - and I just had a very enjoyable 250 mile rd. trip with the gen 2 this week - as smooth and nice as ever still gettting 50mpg on a highway trip at 206k miles.
     
  18. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Sometimes noise can give a perception of speed. I had a Corolla back in the '70s, mate had a MINI. The MINI sounded much faster - because it was noisier - those A Series engines sounded quite nice with less muffler. But line them up on the starting line, and my Corolla was the faster off the line.
     
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  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    rev's of MG2? that's (hi revs) not it's most efficient operating band.
    i hope some day you get to floor it in a model S ... upon doing so friend, one will never again equate noise with acceleration/power ... it will forever alter perceptions. It'll just sound like noise. This from one who had his share of noisy, gear-changing, high-performance gassers .... in the pre-prius days

    .
     
    #19 hill, Sep 26, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
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  20. meeder

    meeder Member

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    The max rpm of MG2 is 17000rpm in the P610 with a 10.8:1 (Prime has a higher reduction) reduction. So it naturally revs higher than in the Gen1 through Gen3. MG2 is always fixed to the differential so the revs are proportional to the vehicle speed at all times.

    It "only" has 163Nm of torque but the high reduction makes sure the output is very high.

    The gen 1 Prius had a 400Nm MG2 if I'm correct but that motor could only achieve around 6000rpm so the speed reduction is a lot lower.

    In the current P610 transaxle they have even changed the ratio between MG1 and MG2 so that MG1 turns slower than MG2 by around 1.2:1.
     
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