Will there be a Toyota Corolla anytime soon?

Theory holds that Toyota plans to put hybrid technology in everything it sells, over time. Since they haven't ( and apparently won't) put out a time line, your guess is as good as anyone elses as to when you'll see it in a specific vehicle.

 

After priming the pump with the Prius, and spending mega bucks developing the technology, I expect (and Toyota's announced plans so far indicate), that they are likely to put HSD in some higher profit margin vehicles first.

Eventually though, I'd expect it in a Corolla or some other similar car, but for now the Prius is likely to be the "Economy" hybrid.

If they did put it in the Corolla now, with the cost structure the way it is (about $3K over normal for HSD), there wouldn't be much difference between a Hybrid Corolla and a Prius, so who in their right mind would buy a Hybrid Corolla?

Plus, since the Prius was designed for aero so heavily, a Hybrid Corolla would possibly get worse mileage than the heavier, larger Prius. That would really make it look bad.

 

People who prefer a trunk to a hatchback? People who prefer the look of a "real car" (My co-worker's opinion is that the Prius doesn't look like a 'real car'. Of course what does he know, he drives a Tacoma!) I'm sure there are many reasons.

 

i think it was very smart marketing on toyota's part (with this generation, not so much the previous) to put the hybrid setup into a car that did not have a non-hybrid equivalent, so that you can't point to a 'hybrid premium' in the price.

all sides seem to agree that the hybrid stuff adds $2-3000 onto the price, and i think it would be a much tougher sell on the corolla, since that's a big % difference in the bottom line, and the corolla already gets pretty good mileage.

of course, as time goes by and the technology improves and economies of scale come into play, all that will change and that's when you will see it get much more common across the spectrum of vehicles.

 

A hybrid Corolla with the same engine, transmission, and equipment of a Prius would sell for approximately the same price as the Prius, but the latter is larger and more versatile with its hatchback design (BTW, this style is much more popular than the trunk alternative is most countries).

 

I think Toyota actually combined a number of smart marketing ideas into the design of the Prius, particulary the 2004, which is clearly a different creature, whereas the 2001-3 just had a freakishly short nose

For one thing, the car really does appeal to geeks (guilty!). Buttons to push, touch screen, voice control, nav system, unique shape... The only thing that would drag in more geek appeal would be if they'd contracted with Michael Okuda and Rick Sternbach (the guys who did a lot of the design work for the latter-day Star Trek series) to do the interior design, and had Majel Barrett doing the NAV system's voice!

And geeks, of course, have money. And many geeks are willing to spend a little extra on something that is cool, geeky, and new. Especially if it fits in with whatever passes for their political priorities (helping the environment, for example).

By contrast, the rest of the Toyota line is not really all that cool looking. The Corolla and Camry are...well, just cars, really. Sticking a hybrid engine into one of these cars too early would fail on several levels:

1] Not geeky enough.
2] Not aerodynamic enough - hence, not as nifty MPG numbers.
3] As you've already mentioned, would jack the prices up. Toyota's spent a fair amount of time establishing those cars at those price points. No need to upset that apple cart if you don't have to.

Honda, of course, has chosen almost an exactly opposite strategy. It seems to be paying off for them, but I do have to wonder how many people are 'settling' for a Hybrid Civic because they're slightly easier to come by than a Prius...

 

to be honest with ya, i was very surprised to hear Toyota announce a Lexus hybrid based on an existing model.

i kinda predicted that Toyota would release new models in hybrid mode which may resemble existing models but would be slightly different with different names with a new marketing campaign, etc.

i must say that the "hybrid premium" theory makes a lot of sense and im kinda bummed that i didnt think of it first.( just kidding) but i based my thoughts on the fact that Toyota has so many different models of everything.

you look at honda and they aint got squat for selection. Toyota has a ton of selection and to top it off, most of their japanese stuff is different than what they market here in the US so their product line is huge.

 

I'm not. As I've already indicated, I agree with Toyota's initial strategy of having a unique platform (the Prius) as a testbed for the hybrid concept. Besides the arguments I've already made, consider this one: if the concept had, in fact, flopped, then only the Prius model itself would be tainted by the failure. Toyota as a corporation would have egg on its face, but the rest of their not-yet-hybridised product line would remain untouched.

However, developing a new car -- meaning not just changing around the interior decor and the shape of some of the body panels, but a true ground-up design -- is expensive business. You don't really want to do it more than you have to. GM got almost a decade out of the 1980s era Cavalier/Sunbird/Skyhawk design, and another decade out of the 1990s Cavalier/Sunfire/Skyhawk design that replaced it, just as an example that I have personal experience with (learned to drive on a 1984 Skyhawk; first new car was a 1991 Sunbird; there was almost no difference in handling despite seven years having passed).

Toyota and Lexus have got a set of good cars that sell. The designs are proven, tested, popular, and make money. Now that the hybrid concept has proven itself, and now that others (like Honda) have demonstrated that you can still get improved mileage, if not optimal, out of a hybrid engine even in a car that isn't purpose built for it, it makes a lot of sense for Toyota to start following suit, and marry two popular ideas together. Particularly when you remember that Toyota's stated goal with the HSD is actually not improved mileage, but improved emissions.

There are a lot of people who think the Prius is too different. I don't happen to be one of them -- I'm actually glad someone was thinking outside the box! -- but you see it all the time on the message boards. Hybridising the rest of the line without much other change will be a smart move in the long run.

 

i once read that the average new model costs up to 10 million from concept to prototype.

but i wonder how much reworking would be involved to incorporate the hybrid technology. one might be further ahead to start over rather than trying to figure out how to squeeze in the technology into the existing space.

i would think that a larger car would also have a larger battery pack, motor, etc.

i would love to try out Toyota's hybrid pickup though. i have every confidence that they will do a great job.

i must admit that the specs on GM's?? truck is unimpressive to me.

 

For those of you who remember the Chevy Corvair and how it was (and ultimately wasn't) marketed by GM, you can begin to see some of the parallels with the marketing of Toyota's Prius.

The Corvair was soooo entirely different (air cooled rear engine) that GM decided to make it stand out from the Chevy II compact by giving it it's own platform and moniker.

Initially, GM's Corvair body choices included only a 2 door coupe and a 4 door sedan. Soon thereafter, GM continued to expand the Corvair line-up to include a convertible, a panel truck (the Corvair 95), a loadside and a stepside pickup truck, a camper van (the Greenbrier), and a station wagon (the Lakewood). Over time, engine choices also increased as displacement increased and added 4x1bbl carbs and a turbocharger option to the Spyder and Corsa models.

The Prius is a separate entity from the rest of the Toyota line-up. If the Prius stays as successful as it has been so far, I wouldn't be too surprised to possibly see variants offered wearing the Prius name. Would a two-door Prius or perhaps a Matrix-like version be a possiblilty?

 

GM's psuedohybrid is basically just a more advanced battery and starter motor that allows the engine to be shut off when the car's at rest.

I believe the real selling point there, since it's a work truck, will be that the improved power system will allow a running Sierra (I think that's the model) to be used as an auxiliary generator for 120v AC devices (as opposed to normal cars, that can only power 12v DC). I may have read that wrong, however.

 

mshappe: ok, i wasnt gonna say anything... i was trying to be nice, but basically GM has half assed the hybrid technology just like the half nice person everything they do.

that is why im waiting for Toyota's hybrid pickup. i doubt that they will make the same mistake.

randalla: the Corvair was before my time and i thank you for the history lesson, very imformative.

 

The initial hybrid version of Corolla is expected to conceal all aspects of technology. The interior will look exactly like the traditional model. No push-button start, no Multi-Display, no digital speedometer, nothing... except a tiny readout showing MPG.

It will make the mainstream transission to HSD totally seamless, to the point where the "average joe" wouldn't hesitate at all about buying a hybrid... kind of like the automatic-transmission, fuel-injection, and front-wheel-drive are now... so common no one gives it a second thought.

There catch is all misconceptions must end first. Gathering proof to do that takes time, a minimum of 7 years.

So eventually...

 

I'll agree with the last two examples as things nobody really gives a second thought to. I have trouble believing anyone, for example, would deliberately try to buy a car with a *non*-fuel-injected engine. I know some people who prefer rear-wheel for specific applications, but most also agree that front-wheel has its place (I really prefer AWD, myself, and it's something I wish the Prius had, but ah, well).

The number of people who have whined about the lack of a manual transmission option for the Prius suggests that the automatic transmission meme is still penetrating the consumer-base's consciousness, however... :-D

 

The primary reason for getting a carburated non-computer controlled car is so that your car can't get zapped by the cops and that new radio wave thingy (subject of another thread) while making your getaway. :lol: :lol:

 

actually i wish all wheel drive was available in the Prius too. then the B mode would be regen in 4 wheels with coasting in D mode regen in just 2 wheels...

 

Mileage would suffer from the added weight and associated linkages. Given the Prius already has traction control, it would be interesting to see an AWD and standard tested side by side in ice/snow conditions. Also AWD vs VSC versions. I doubt there would be any handling advantage at all from AWD.

 

The real aspect is the fun of getting into an old car, and enjoying its quirks. My old Benz was almost like stepping into a time machine with its column shift 4 speed manual tranny, no seatbelts, curvy bodywork, massive steering wheel, and 5 minute starting process. :mrgreen: Plus when the car was running, the whole thing buzzed and quivered with a note long since forgotten with the age of sound insulation - and then there was that RIDE!!!!! It felt more like flying on a cloud.