1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Winter Snow Warning

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by kiehlrp, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. kiehlrp

    kiehlrp New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    6
    0
    0
    Location:
    Alaska
    First, let me say I love my Prius ('05)! I live in Alaska and it handles the cold (so far, no colder than 0 F.) with no problem. It handles great on ice with my four studded Nokias. But, It is a definite No-Go in snow deeper than four or five inches. If I try to go up my driveway (moderate incline with some curves) and the snow has not been cleared, I can make it about thirty feet before the electronic skid control idles the engine down and I lose all momentum. It simply stops!

    Anybody who lives in an area where snow might not be cleared from the streets for a few days will not be able to use their Prius. Anybody attempting to drive their Prius through mountain passes in the winter where snow removal might not be able to keep up with snow fall depths had better carry survival gear (not just a candle), because they will be stranded.

    I do not think this is a problem with the Prius. I do think it is a problem with electronic skid control. Perhaps this could be solved by locking out the skid control when the transmission is placed in the braking mode? I never had a problem like this with any of my front wheel drive vehicles in the past (mainly Saabs).

    If you are gong to travel in moderately deep snow in your Prius, you may get stranded in the middle of nowhere or at the entrance to your driveway, so be prepared!

    I feel so disloyal pointing this out! (It's my car's only fault.) :(
     
  2. Bill Lumbergh

    Bill Lumbergh USAF Aircraft Maintainer

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    537
    7
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I live in Anchorage and I've had problems only once since I got my 05 in August. You may recall the time around Thanksgiving when we got like a foot over a three-day period. I got semi-stuck trying to leave my apartment complex, but a couple tries at getting a run at the hill was all it took.

    FYI, I have new Blizzaks.

    Where you located in AK?
     
  3. djasonw

    djasonw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    950
    116
    0
    Location:
    Coconut Creek, FL
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    If I lived in AK I would NOT have a Prius.
     
  4. GreenMachine

    GreenMachine New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    760
    6
    0
    Location:
    Vermont, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Do you have really good snow tires or just the OEM tires? The key it to have tires where there is no slippage if at all possible since slippage engages the TRAC when you least want it.

    Several people think the Prius is great in the snow, but those all have very good snow tires.
     
  5. Dave

    Dave New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2003
    340
    2
    0
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The original post says studded Nokia tires.
     
  6. kiehlrp

    kiehlrp New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    6
    0
    0
    Location:
    Alaska
    Hillside area -- definitely more rural.
     
  7. brandon

    brandon Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    771
    9
    0
    Location:
    Manhattan, KS
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    It recently snowed a few inches around my neck of the woods. I thought the Prius did quite well, actually. I never once felt like I was slipping around or not in control of the car. That said, I can see the potential for problems with large amounts of snow and untreated streets. You'll see those kinds of problems in any vehicle with low ground clearance.
     
  8. GreenMachine

    GreenMachine New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    760
    6
    0
    Location:
    Vermont, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III

    Ooops, so much for speed reading. Nevermind. :(
     
  9. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    1,690
    6
    0
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I don't see how this is Prius Specific. It seems this would be the same for any car with a 5" ground clearance and skid plates (or, in the case of the Prius, aero panels) underneath.

    I'd assume you're riding up on the snow and lifting the front wheels off the ground. Traction Control or the lack thereof won't do a thing for that once you've jacked the front of the car up.

    I had a Blazer with the same problem, except that it took three feet of snow to pack up enough underneath to strand it 'high and dry'.

    I wouldn't dispute that the Prius isn't the right tool for the job in deep snow, but that's no different than any other car with similar ground clearance.
     
  10. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    2
    3
    0
    I agree it is bad in the snow.

    Although that may be cured by some bad-nice person snow tires, IMO, this is very reminiscent of the 1970's, where getting "snow tires" was pretty much a necessity.

    I admit, I don't want to go through that hassle in the winter, then again in the spring. Maybe Toyota can include better all season's? Then again, if only a small portion of the Prius market deals with snow of any significance, I can see the logic for Toyota using "bare-bones", merely "ok", all season tires...

    It is pretty sad that I can say because of traction control, I could have gotten around easier in my summer Mustang with rear wheel drive and summer performance tires... :lol:
     
  11. kiehlrp

    kiehlrp New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    6
    0
    0
    Location:
    Alaska
     
  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,933
    16,155
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    First of all, you're getting confused.

    What's stopping you is TRACTION CONTROL. What you're describing in your previous post is VEHICLE STABILITY CONTROL.

    The difference is that traction control prevents your wheel from spin allowing you to get grip on the tyres. The car will retard the throttle and/or apply some braking to stop the wheel from spinning, then let you use the force that's turning the wheel make contact and grip the surface rather than using it to freely spin the wheel.

    Stability control is yaw control. It senses that your car is rotating about on its axis and will apply the brakes to individual wheels to prevent you from oversteering (fishtailing) or understeering (ploughing).


    The problem with the Prius is that the traction control cannot be turned off because you don't want to overspin the electric motor.
     
  13. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    3,650
    6
    0
    Location:
    Olympia Wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    If you high centered the prius would not the traction control kick in to prevent tire spin? I noticed when I took my car out in our recent 3-4 inches of snow that because it was heavy wet snow the other cars had piled up the snow somewhat in a center "hump". I noticed when this was fairly high the traction control light would flash on and I could hear the snow scraping under the front dam and car bottom. Could this be similar. When the snow get deep I am going to drive my Ford Explorer. Snow clearing is not something we do well in this area we just spread sand on it. Thank goodness they do not use salt! We then wait for it to melt. It is still melting one week later from the last snow.
     
  14. kiehlrp

    kiehlrp New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    6
    0
    0
    Location:
    Alaska
    Thank you. That is extremly helpful to understand. I wonder if I am making the problem worse by deliberately skidding around corners in deep snow in an effort to maintain momentum.
     
  15. Escalade_on_22s

    Escalade_on_22s New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    70
    2
    0
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    There is a way to temporarily disable the traction control...

    Disabling Traction Control
    WARNING: The shop manual apparently states in no uncertain terms that this procedure must NOT be used to drive the car as damage to the transmission could occur due to traction control being defeated.
    • Follow the sequence below (quickly - within 60 seconds)
    • Set Ign switch to ON, not READY (Power button twice, no brake)
    • While still in "P" fully depress the gas pedal two times.
    • Select "N" fully depress the gas pedal two times.
    • Select "P" fully depress the gas pedal two times.
    (LCD display will indicate a !Car! in upper left corner of screen)
    • Turn key directly to "start" to start the engine (brake+start button)
    It forces the ICE to run continuosly and defeats the traction control system. Normal operation returns after turn off and reboot. Unlike EV-Mode this is strictly a diagnostic function and should not be used under normal situations.
     
  16. v.jones

    v.jones New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    101
    1
    0
    Location:
    New Jersey north of NYC
    Seems like there is as much variation in how Prii perform in snow as there is in Mustangs... My first car was an original Ford Mustang (6 banger, 3 on the floor, the only options above straight stock were an outside mirror on the driver's side! and an AM radio, definitely not your high performance Shelby model). Keeping in mind that this is back in the days of bias ply tires and plows that left the last inch of snow on the road, the only way I could get around New Jersey at all in winter was to put snow tires on and pray. As it was, I would start the winter by buying a 50 pound bag of sand to keep in the trunk with the snow shovel, not for spreading but for weight.

    The only vehicle I've ever owned that was worse than that Mustang in snow was a Chevy Luv (baby pickup) truck which had virtually no weight on the back wheels when unloaded. I lived in Colorado at the time and wound up storing a load of firewood in the back of the bed all winter so I could get to and from work. I also always got a kick out of driving to work the first snowy day each year and seeing all the new 4WD vehicles in the ditches alongside the roads as a new crop of drivers learned the hard way that all cars have 4W brakes and that the real advantage of 4WD was how slow you could go in snow without getting stuck, not how fast.

    Vince
     
  17. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    The car I MOST got stuck in was my CJ-5 Jeep. The ONLY thing that would stop that car was getting high-centered. The problem was, I got over-confident and tried to go where the snow was deeper than the clearance. But since this usually happened gradually and the car had momentum and would slide pretty well on its under-belly, by the time it stopped I was generally about 20 feet from where the wheels could touch the ground, on an unpaved road that nobody else would dream of driving on. So with no hope of anyone coming along, I'd have to spend the next hour or two shovelling.

    I've never gotten stuck in my Prius, because I wait for the roads to be plowed before I drive. It's a low-clearance car, not made for deep snow. If I lived where the OP does, or similar conditions, I'd probably have a high-clearance 4WD and only drive the Prius when the roads were clear.

    My bigger concern is ice, and we all agree that on ice the Prius is spectacular.
     
  18. kiehlrp

    kiehlrp New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    6
    0
    0
    Location:
    Alaska
    Thanks. Very interesting, although their warning makes it sound pretty scary!
     
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,933
    16,155
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    No problem, glad to clarify.

    Hmm, that could be, yes but that wouldn't get you stuck. It snowed here last week and it was a mix of slush and partially packed snow. I took the car out for a little test and went around corners by yanking on the steering wheel harder than usual (which is safer than trying to go around the corner at a higher speed). This caused VSC to kick in, I just slowly let the wheel return to centre and the car kept me from hitting the curb.

    The thing is, as long as you're not pressing too hard that TRAC will engage after VSC straighten things out.

    Perhaps find an open, unobstructed, open air lot and try out different things such as hard acceleration, hard acceleration then letting go slowly, light acceleration, try out VSC and ABS too while you're at it. :)
     
  20. jganeles

    jganeles New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    7
    0
    0
    Boxster...what size Blizzaks did you put on your Prius??

    Thanks.