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Featured You're wrong about the Aptera

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Roqu3, Feb 18, 2024.

  1. Roqu3

    Roqu3 Member

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    Interesting video about the "solar" car that seems not to be a scam

    23049PCD8G ?
     
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  2. MrLightRail

    MrLightRail Junior Member

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    I put down a deposit on an Aptera, but I'm not one of the "pioneer" folks, so I'm in the back of the line. I expect to get one in 2026.
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    am i wrong to think it won't sell well? i'd give about as many as hydrogen cars
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Sales are limited to southern California, and a $40k discount means they are paying you to take the trike.
     
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  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Solar cars aren't scams but aren't likely to happen in any real volume. Yes it may get twice as many miles per kwh as a tesla model 3, but does that really matter. A solar panel on a roof that charges an ev is likely much less expensive than adding them to the roof of a car. Say that car lasts 15 years, my solar is warranted for 25 years, and I expect it will last 30 (5 years so far, and they replaced the cable the squirrels chewed through under warranty ;-)). The solar on my roof or in solar farms works even when the car is in a garage or in the shade.

    There are people that park in the sun all day and can't put solar on their roofs or buy solar from a solar farm. They may want this 3 wheeled car, but my guess is not many of them will. My dual motor model 3 gets slightly less than 4 miles/kwh because I have sentry mode when parked outside the garage, and run the airconditioning a lot in the texas heat. Still 10 miles/kwh would not sell me on an aptera. It would be cool to have as a 3rd car in our home, but It wouldn't even fit in the garage, and I'd be scared to park it in the street as my street is narrow and that vehicle is wide.

    Definitely a good deal for those that live in california and want them and can get a big discount.
     
  6. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    The car is a wonderful journey towards sustainability and efficiency. I'm glad they are still in development and wish them all the best.
     
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  7. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    That's one view. The other view is that the solar panels have been manufactured and will not ever produce as much power as they would if put on a sunny roof for their useful life. Instead they will often be in the shade or not optimally oriented. Some will get damaged in crashes and end their useful life early. And almost all will be scrapped when the car is not longer useful but the panels could still be producing for another 5, 10 or more years. Solar panels don't really go out of style, but cars do.

    Now, when we have pretty much saturated the world with all the solar that makes sense and there are no roofs without panels...then great, start making these.

    Mike
     
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  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    From personal experience noticing our 8 KW rooftop system would lose a good 25% efficiency on a 90° days (because solar is less efficient the hotter it gets & more efficient the cooler it gets) - aptera brags it has a 750 w potential energy on its roof. A house top roof set of panels may be built five or six" off the roof to reduce overheating. Can't do that on a car. So that's 750W is going to be much worse than 25% loss on hot days. Is that a fatal flaw? No, just omissions that they should be upfront about.
    .
     
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  9. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Not to completely derail the thread but…
    I can’t say I have noticed a 25% efficiency loss on our rooftop system. I am wondering if it has more to do with the roof temp rather than the ambient air temp?
    I know 2” above a shingle roof can get a lot hotter than the air temp. Not sure about tile?

    If it is more of a roof heat issue, I would suggest the heat around the Aptera solar panels will be much less than the heat around a shingle roof solar panel. Again, not sure if this holds up with tile.
     
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    My interest in the Aptera has nothing to do with it having solar. I'd skip adding the extra panels. My interest is in it being a very efficient vehicle that could be affordable for its limited production targets.
     
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  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Now you got me wondering
    Can Solar Panels Get Too Hot?

    You got me thinking i was losing my mind so I checked up on a few websites. Not that this doesn't corroborate not losing my mind
    ;)
    Our roof didn't get so hot because it was covered with panels but the panels themselves could be 40° hot to The Touch Above the ambient temperature which means they could be around 150°
    You know what they say about electronics & heat ....
    .
     
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  12. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    That makes sense.
    I do wonder if there is a difference between panels on an asphalt shingle roof and a cooler steel roof?
     
  13. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    What's the degradation rate of EV panels?
     
  14. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    I'm getting in line to pick up one of these for commuting. Pity regulations may require a MCY license to operate. For me no prob, but others.... prohibitory
     
  15. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    As I recall, it is about 1% annually.
     
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    In Calif you don't need a motorcycle Cert On your Driver's license to run a 3-wheel vehicle. Schwarzenegger was pulled over on a trike & didn't have a motorcycle permit & that's when most locals became aware of that fact.

    Do You Need A Motorcycle License For A Trike? [State Laws}
    .
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Might be more a question of how they are mounted. The roof is mostly shaded by the panels itself, but how much space between them dictates how well the panels shed heat. On asphalt, the panels are almost sitting right on the roof, while standing seam metal means there is a larger gap for air flow.

    Some, like Pennsylvania, also don't require helmets if the cabin is enclosed.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Why wouldn’t they mount the panels higher if heat is a problem?
     
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Why didn't your PiP have liquid cooling for the battery?:)

    The efficiency loss from the panels getting hot isn't much of a problem. For most it is a seasonal issue to not be concerned about. If it lasts longer, then pay to mount them better or just add more to cover the loss.

    There is also other considerations. Letting more air under the panels also means letting more wind. Which can be bad in a storm, and the mounting strength could vary between the types.
     
  20. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Here is the warranty on mine from 2015

    SolarWorld warrants to the end user that the actual output of the
    product, as measured by SolarWorld, will amount to at least 97% of
    its initial effective output during the first year after purchase of the
    product, and as of the second year after purchase of the product,
    the effective output will decline annually by no more than 0.35%
    for a period of 29 years, so that as of the end of the 30th year after
    purchase, an actual output of at least 86.85% of effective output will
    be achieved.
    However, the warranty is only good if the company is still around and they went out of business a couple of years ago
    It is very difficult to measure how much loss you have because, well, the weather is different each year.
    But my 8th year total was about 96% of my first year total.

    On days around 95-100F I notice about 10-15% lower output...I have light grey concrete tiles with about 4" clearance.

    Mike
     
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