UOA Used Oil Analysis

[dcoyne78]

[attachmentid=8634]Two sheets, second is PPM/1000 oil miles. Mostly the work of Tochatichu, with some additions by me. I will update this as more analyses are posted. If your analysis is here and you can post some of the missing information or errors, I would appreciate it.

Dennis

[dcoyne78]

new analyses added

[tochatihu]

Here's another one from me.

The fuel dilution issue remains, even though I took pains to avoid it in sampling. It may be that the Pris' PCV valve is no longer performing well. THis one is original at 105k miles. I know I oughtta change it...

[dcoyne78]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu @ Jun 7 2007, 10:27 AM) [snapback]457304[/snapback]</div>

Here's another one from me.

The fuel dilution issue remains, even though I took pains to avoid it in sampling. It may be that the Pris' PCV valve is no longer performing well. This one is original at 105k miles. I know I oughtta change it...
[/b]

Doug,

Very nice report! The fuel dilution did not hurt your wear much. Terry Dyson has suggested that using a simple Fram paper air filter will help with fuel dilution, which might be worth a try or just replace the air filter with a new oem and see if that helps. I think your idea of replacing the PCV may be a good one as well. What do you use for air and oil filtration? Did something change after 7/20/05 with your air filtration or where you drive? I ask because the Si levels seem to have increased a little on your last two ocis. Looking at the spreadsheet it seems that sometimes you see fuel dilution and sometimes not, but over the last two years it has been a problem. Not that it matters much with wear of 1.17 PPM Fe/ 1000 miles! It might be worth it to pay an extra $20 and send your next analysis to Terry Dyson, if it were my car and money, that's what I would do.

Dennis

[tochatihu]

The oil filters have always been Toyota's, but just now I have changed to the 'longer one'. Air filter has been K&N for all my UOA; re-oiled sometime around 80k. The Si is not worrying me yet, but if it gets much worse I shall have to revert to paper air filters.

One of these days, somebody will post 50 ppm Fe or so in Prius and we'll all freak out! Or other numbers that would be very acceptable for other engines. Prius is just too clean, inside and out, which draws us dangerously close to perfectionism.

[dmckinstry]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu @ Jun 7 2007, 07:27 AM) [snapback]457304[/snapback]</div>

Here's another one from me.

The fuel dilution issue remains, even though I took pains to avoid it in sampling. It may be that the Pris' PCV valve is no longer performing well. THis one is original at 105k miles. I know I oughtta change it...
[/b]

Let me add my latest report as well. Seemingly a lot of fuel dilution.

[attachmentid=8681]

The viscosity of 10 concerns me, as well as the sodium level. How bad is 203 on sodium. It says high sodium could only be a coolant leak, such as head gasket leaking, broken or cracked head.

What other symptoms would show head gasket leak, etc. I would assume either cause would result in performance issues. As for the fuel dilution, what beside a bad PCV could cause it. The earlier example showed a viscosity of 20.0, after 1000 miles. I've been taking my sample soon after at least 20 miles of driving, and inserting the tube to the level of the level of the end of the dipstick should make it more or less at midway up through the oil, far from either top surface or bottom of oil pan? I am approaching 50k miles now, but have never had what I considered to be performance issues.

IIRC, this oil is from my oil change at a dealer in Santa Cruz, before my trip back home.

The sodium level in my first report (at 1000 miles on an earlier oil change) was 4 ppm. Actually, I see now that the earlier report is also included.

Thanks for any ideas. Tochatihu, Jayman, anyone else doing oil analysis.

Since they suggest another sample in 3000 miles, I may do that. And if sodium is still high (Jayman, I think you may have suggested that contamination may be from the dealer oil). Does that include sodium?


Dave M.

[Winston]

I know that I am speaking out of turn, but Jaymans old complaint about dealer oil specifically concerned Sodium. However, Mobil uses Na as part of their additive package. The Mobil "Clean" or "5000" or "7500" all have about 250ppm sodium. Usually when you have a coolant leak you have sodium and potasium in your oil. Plus, your wear metals spike up due to the water in the oil. I bet you just have one of the Mobil oils in there.

I cant believe anyone would actually put a K&N filter on their Prius.

Fram makes a nice air filter.

Fram makes an overpriced oil filter.

[dmckinstry]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Jun 8 2007, 09:54 AM) [snapback]458097[/snapback]</div>

I know that I am speaking out of turn, but Jaymans old complaint about dealer oil specifically concerned Sodium. However, Mobil uses Na as part of their additive package. The Mobil "Clean" or "5000" or "7500" all have about 250ppm sodium. Usually when you have a coolant leak you have sodium and potasium in your oil. Plus, your wear metals spike up due to the water in the oil. I bet you just have one of the Mobil oils in there.

I cant believe anyone would actually put a K&N filter on their Prius.

Fram makes a nice air filter.

Fram makes an overpriced oil filter.
[/b]

Thanks for that information. It makes me feel better. I think I'll take a sample on my current oil, which has less than 500 miles on it, and take another sample at 3000 miles. At least then, I'll least see if the sodium level is changing.

Why would you say you're speaking out of turn?

Dave M.

[tochatihu]

Hi Dave M., let me get this straight - This oil was Pennzoil (from bottles), and it was analyzed twice, and the second analysis changed radically in sodium and viscosity?

If so, I am going to assume that you have different oil and filter in now. Please resample that in about 500 miles for analysis. Collect a double sample and hold on to one, just in case you decide later to send it to a different lab for confirmation.

I would not wait 3000 miles (especially in a beloved Prius), to see if there are major antifreeze or fuel dilution issues going on. Don't fret, but don't wait for that re-analysis. The engine is obviously not getting shredded yet

Edit - I said the Pennzoil thing because your UOA seems to indicate that. But your post says a dlr change, so I am just trying to clarify what actually happened.

[Frank Hudon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Jun 8 2007, 09:42 AM) [snapback]458083[/snapback]</div>

Let me add my latest report as well. Seemingly a lot of fuel dilution.

[attachmentid=8681]

The viscosity of 10 concerns me, as well as the sodium level. How bad is 203 on sodium. It says high sodium could only be a coolant leak, such as head gasket leaking, broken or cracked head.

What other symptoms would show head gasket leak, etc. I would assume either cause would result in performance issues.
Dave M.
[/b]

If I read the report correctly you've put 10,000 mile on this oil change, that is probably the reason for the viscosity to drop to 10, it shows that the additive pack in the oil is used up. Easy way to monitor the antifreeze is to put a line on the overflow tank and check it when cold, as in a Prius we can never get a warm reading as the ICE is on and off all the time, so a cold check is the only really valid one. If the antifreeze level keeps going down, time for pressure test of the cooling system.