confirmed overfill damage

[galaxee]

DH got a car with codes indicating a charcoal canister full of gas and something else to do with the bladder (i forget what) today due to overfill... not covered under warranty, will cost owner ~$1000.

tell me that extra gallon or so of gas is worth it...

[dmckinstry]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 19 2007, 10:36 AM) [snapback]408422[/snapback]</div>

DH got a car with codes indicating a charcoal canister full of gas and something else to do with the bladder (i forget what) today due to overfill... not covered under warranty, will cost owner ~$1000.

tell me that extra gallon or so of gas is worth it...
[/b]

I've never had my tank so much as burp, but I've always filled at the lowest pump setting. I have topped by clicking repeatedly and slowly though, but never gotten more than a half gallon more in that way.

What would the symptoms that lead to checking the codes? Just curious.

Dave M.

[Dan-Wolfe]

$1,000 is about what I paid to have the fuel bladder/tank assembly replaced when I received a tank of contaminated gas from a Navy Exchange gas station. Fortunately, Citgo, the Navy contractor who confirmed supplying the contaminated gas, paid for the repair lock, stock and bladder. I was lucky.

While topping off does increase your range, it doesn't increase your mileage. I have yet to understand why people are so obsessed with eeking out that last mile out of the tank and then run out of gas -- or worse! Yikes!

[jrfaris]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 19 2007, 09:36 AM) [snapback]408422[/snapback]</div>

... not covered under warranty, will cost owner ~$1000.[/b]

Not enough details to know who is responsible. A manfunction in the fueling nozzle could make the gas station responsible. Do you have vapor recovery nozzles in NC? It's hard to imagine normal topping off causing this level of overfill. If so, it would be a more common problem. Could you give us more details on what the bladder problem was? It just seems like there has to be more to the story.

[Charles Suitt]

Thanks Galaxee... for more interesting information. I *DO* continue to live and learn. First, that the Prius 'codes' can indicate a 'fuel-filled' cannister, and Secondly {apparently} that in case of contaminated fuel you would be obliged to replace the entire bladder/tank assembly rather than a 'drain-flush-re-fuel' procedure as in an ordinary fuel system.

I have to smile and chuckle when I consider the simplicity of my first car - a VERY well-used 1931 Model A Ford 2-door sedan bought in 1947. My, how things have changed - I would admit FOR THE BETTER.

[viking31]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 19 2007, 01:36 PM) [snapback]408422[/snapback]</div>

DH got a car with codes indicating a charcoal canister full of gas and something else to do with the bladder (i forget what) today due to overfill... not covered under warranty, will cost owner ~$1000.

tell me that extra gallon or so of gas is worth it...
[/b]

Galaxee, does DH know exactly how you can overfill the Prius? Does the fuel have to be forced in (as with a malfunctioning fuel nozzle)? Can one overfill the Prius if you were to just let the last half a gallon or so gravity feed into the Prius?

I can see a failure as you described above if the fuel was force fed into the system after it reached normal capacity. I could be wrong but I would hope it would be difficult if not impossible to overfill the system if you were to "top it off" gravity style. Are there not check valves or other design features leading to the various pollution control systems which prevent liquid damage under most conditions of the failure DH described?

Rick
#4 2006

[DFWPrius]

You can over fill a Prius, just like any other car. Insert just the tip of the nozzle and with your fingers pull back the vapor skirt on the nozzle and fill until gas is at the lip of the fuel cap.

If you do this first thing in the moring and then park it in the sun, so the gas warms up and then it will
move into the vent tube and the charcoal canister.

Just one idea on how you can do it.

But who wants that much range, next thing you know people will put 5 gal gas cans in the back and transfer pump and hose.

[zqfmbg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 19 2007, 10:36 AM) [snapback]408422[/snapback]</div>

DH got a car with codes indicating a charcoal canister full of gas and something else to do with the bladder (i forget what) today due to overfill... not covered under warranty, will cost owner ~$1000.

tell me that extra gallon or so of gas is worth it...
[/b]

Whew. After my overfill-and-spill episode, I count myself lucky that the only damage (so far) was to the environment. Mind, the overfill happened a little before noon, so there probably wasn't too much in the way of gas thermal expansion. My ScanGauge II isn't reporting any codes, too.

[galaxee]

ok, DH just got home so he can answer some questions:

1. the codes were gas in the charcoal canister and leaking bladder. the leaking bladder was detected because there was fuel in the void between the bladder and metal tank, there's a sensor in there to detect fuel.

basically, the overflow filled the canister and then went on through the evap system into the space between the bladder and the tank.

2. dave: the symptoms were a big ol' check engine light that came on before they even got out of the gas station parking lot. apparently it ran funny right away too, probably trying to clear the fuel in the canister and dumping liquid fuel rather than the mostly-air it was expecting.

3. jrfaris: i posted the bladder code information above. the customer claimed that the nozzle just didn't shut off. we don't have vapor recovery nozzles here as far as i'm aware. this is the first time he's seen one with a bladder tank code but he has seen maybe 3 canister codes before.

4. charles: depends on the contamination. we ran a bad tank of gas with zero long term effects, just ridiculously low mpg. sometimes cleaning out the fuel rail is enough.

5. rick: there is a cutoff valve to prevent overfill. as far as he knows it only works at regular flow rate, which is why trickling gas into there works. the cutoff valve can't prevent that from going through. there is also a check valve to prevent fuel from going into the EVAP system, but if you fill all the way up to the top of the filler pipe where the pipe that holds that valve sits, it's inundated with fuel and it just won't hold up to that kind of treatment. so in the case of a nozzle not shutting off, he doesn't think that the cutoff valve would hold 100% of the fuel out and would still allow an overfill in a drastic kind of scenario like that. doesn't help that the charcoal canister on a prius is tiny by most standards and takes very little to saturate it.

hope that answer most of the questions.

[dmckinstry]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 19 2007, 08:10 PM) [snapback]408745[/snapback]</div>

ok, DH just got home so he can answer some questions:
hope that answer most of the questions.
[/b]

Thanks for the low down Galaxee.

Dave M.