Prius Myths and their Rebuttals

[TonyPSchaefer]

A coworker stopped by my office this afternoon and said that he spent a few minutes over the weekend defending the Prius to his neighbor. Apperantly, the neighbor was spewing "facts" from the various media outlets and using them to bash the Prius.

I offered to build a strong case in defense of the Prius and email the news articles, research papers, and other articles of truth to him. Additionally, I provided my home email address so his neighbor could contact me directly with questions.

But as I'm sitting here thinking about scouring Priuschat for information, I got thinking that there might be others who would want/need this information for themselves and the people they encounter at work or at home. Additionally, I plan on attending HybridFest '07 and again showing Priapus. It would be great to have a collection of documents that I can hand out to people that sets the story straight.

So I'm starting this thread and pinning it. Let's build a collection of Prius myths and then provide the documentation that debunks the myths.

Futile as I know it will be, I'm going to try and impose some rules:
1) This thread is not for conversation. This thread is for posting facts.
2) If you are going to reference a source for your information, you'd better provide a valid link or the document itself. Anecdotes will not be permitted nor will opinions, musings, or interpretive dance. If you do not have "CutePDF" or any other free PDF destiller, I suggest you get one. They are free, easy to use, and allow you to 'print' web pages to PDF.
3) Perhaps the only exception to rule 2 is Galaxee and other certified PriusTechs
4) I am so determined to keep this thread topical, I will prune and delete posts that do not progress the main intent.

Here are some common myths that my coworker's neighbor quoted. Debunk these if you can. . .
- The hybrid battery will die after only 6 years.
- The hybrid battery will cost $6,000 to replace.
- More energy goes into the Prius' manufacturing process than is saved in fuel.
- With so few hybrids on the road, it's just not worth it.

[john1701a]

AUDIENCE who are the recipients of this information? Are they clueless to all things automotive? Will we lose their attention quickly by starting with the basics or lose them by jumping the biggest understanding hurdle first?

SIZE is always a huge challenge. Detail or Summary? Include Photos? Consider cost of printing?

SCOPE can be a problem? Some misconceptions have already been squashed (like speed & power). So how much should certain topics be addressed, if at all?

DYNAMIC should be a given. Unless this is a living document, forget it. The very first edition of the User-Guide was pitiful compared to what we now have 4 years later.

PERSPECTIVE is a creative approach. Looking at what's just around the corner, like the roads filled with the next generation Prius eliminates having to even discuss much of the original hybrid history. Going forward from today is all the further back that would be necessary.

DESIGNS are already a problem. With several different types of hybrids, there is the problem of misconceptions being true for some but false for others. Explaining why they are not the same is required, but by no means easy.

I've been wanting to beef up my misconception information for a very long time now. But feedback from those here is quite lacking, members are too well informed. We need comments from those like that neighbor. Of course, the approach I have taken is to chase the antagonists. They intentionally exploit misconceptions to sour the appeal of hybrids.

May the force with with you... But first, let's clarify purpose by addressing the items above. This new documentation is a great idea.

[TonyPSchaefer]

As usual, John's thinking several levels deeper than I anticipated.

1. Assume they are not automotive or technologically educated.
2. Nothing too huge. I was thinking about news clippings or design specs. One or a few sheets of paper per personal addition, tops.
3. Address all misconceptions regardless of age or level of current debunkness.
4. We have the ability to edit our own posts in this thread to keep information current.
5. Please don't speculate about the future. Remember that many misconceptions are based on things said three yers ago and propogated.
6. Let's just focus on the Prius for us.


My my first addition is attached: I was looking for this when I initially posted.

[Frank Hudon]

there is an error in the PDF under #2 where they say the battery is used in the 40-60% range when it's 40-80%.

[TheForce]

Will this help for the price of the HV battery? Yeah I know we almost have a "lifetime warranty" for the battery but if you really need to buy one NOW this would be the current price.

Current price $2388.10

[attachmentid=5774]

[galaxee]

i saw my handle and was intrigued at the context :P

myth i get often:
- hybrids are not reliable and require constant maintenance and repair

my answer (i LOVE to get this question!):
- my husband fixes them for a living. he sees fewer problems in prius than in other conventional cars. and he is the prius guy. all the crazy stuff goes directly to him, do not pass go, do not collect $500.
- [check out the maintenance schedule for a reference, obviously]- no special maintenance issues above and beyond what regular cars would get.

[dvdirv]

My favorite myth is that you can't really save that much money on gas over time since the Prius costs so much more than a non-hybrid.

MY ANSWER: There are so many other reasons for owning a Prius besides gas savings. I personally like all the cool gadgets on the car such as the Smart Key System or the built-in Bluetooth. You normally cannot find these gizmos unless you buy a luxury car.

I suppose the cleaner environment doesn't add to the argument, either.

[eagle33199]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dvdirv @ Nov 28 2006, 10:41 AM) [snapback]354807[/snapback]</div>

My favorite myth is that you can't really save that much money on gas over time since the Prius costs so much more than a non-hybrid.

MY ANSWER: There are so many other reasons for owning a Prius besides gas savings. I personally like all the cool gadgets on the car such as the Smart Key System or the built-in Bluetooth. You normally cannot find these gizmos unless you buy a luxury car.

I suppose the cleaner environment doesn't add to the argument, either.
[/b]

That goes along with my favorite: the "pay back" period for the hybrid premium.

We've all seen the math and the numbers that shows how many miles are needed and the gas price needed to effectively "pay back" that premium, i'd say it's a much better argument to ask what the "pay back" period is on a sports car, luxury car, or high priced SUV, all of which carery a large premium over whatever car would fit the persons needs at the least cost.

[mhellmer]

This is the one that bugs me. Prius is more expensive to society, lifetime, than many SUVs and luxury cars. On the list Prius is pretty high.

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

Open the .zip file near the bottom of the page. It contains a .doc file with the report.

Myth or fact? What is the rebuttal?

CNW Marketing Research Inc. spent two years collecting data on the energy necessary to plan, build, sell, drive and dispose of a vehicle from initial concept to scrappage. This includes such minutia as plant to dealer fuel costs, employee driving distances, electricity usage per pound of material used in each vehicle and literally hundreds of other variables.

To put the data into understandable terms for consumers, it was translated into a “dollars per lifetime mile” figure. That is, the Energy Cost per mile driven.
[/b]

A snippet from the table in the .zip file. Sorry about the formatting

Car                 Cost/mile     Estimated Life (Miles)
Prius           $3.249     109,000
Civic Hybrid      $3.238     113,000
LX 470             $3.229     213,000
Boxster         $3.224     157,000
Escalade ESV     $3.197     234,000
Land Cruiser       $3.184     301,000
STS              $3.175     216,000
Corvette       $3.158     162,000
Suburban      $3.134     272,000
Yukon XL      $3.132     271,000
lExpedition       $3.058     284,000
XK           $3.058     188,000
Maserati       $3.055     162,000
FX35/45       $3.029     173,000
Aston Martin     $3.028     156,000
H2     $3.027     197,000

[Marlin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(QuadAces @ Nov 28 2006, 06:02 PM) [snapback]354930[/snapback]</div>

This is the one that bugs me. Prius is more expensive to society, lifetime, than many SUVs and luxury cars. On the list Prius is pretty high.

Open the .zip file near the bottom of the page. It contains a .doc file with the report.

Myth or fact? What is the rebuttal?
A snippet from the table in the .zip file. Sorry about the formatting
[/b]

Well golly, they estimate the lifetime of the Prius as only 109,000 miles and the lifetime of an Expidition as 284,000 miles. I think they would have to justify that 109,000 mile number for that list to be valid.