12002 miles on Mobil 1 0w20, used oil analysis

[dcoyne78]

Edit: (12/11/2009) See the update at the end of this thread, I would be careful going more than 10,000 miles on a single oil change and would recommend Renewable Lubricants Inc 0w20 if attempting extended oil change intervals. Also used oil analysis by Dyson Analysis is recommended.

Original post is below:

For anyone considering Mobil 1 0w20, my results have been pretty good for the last 7 months/ 12000 miles.
Drives are mostly shorter trips 10-15 miles with longer 90 mile weekend trips for skiing and occasional trips of 250 miles to Massachusetts from Maine and one trip to Ottawa from Maine (3 trips total).

Blackstone Labs Oil Analyses for 2004 Prius                                 
 
All samples pulled through dipstick, oil has not been changed since                                
Sept 2006. Will continue to analyze every 2000 miles up to one year.                                
Approx 53.9 mpg over 12002 miles or 222.7 gallons 87 octane                                
oil filter Mobil 1, air filter is OEM                                 
Oil Type    Mobil 1 0W20 SM GF4                            
Oil placed in service 9/26/06 at 50455 miles                                
 
Date______        5/4__    4/3__    2/11_    12/23    11/13    5/4__    
Year______        2007_    2007_    2007_    2006_    2006_    2007_    
Makeup oil        0.25_    0.625    0.125    0____    0____    Univ_    
Mi on Eng_        62457    60465    57983    55358    52834    Avg__    VOA
Mi on Oil_        12002    10010    7528_    4903_    2379_    6800_    0
Aluminum__        4____    4____    4____    3____    2____    3____    0
Chromium__        0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0
Iron______        12___    9____    8____    5____    1____    8____    1
Copper____        1____    1____    1____    1____    0____    1____    0
Lead______        0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0
Tin_______        1____    1____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0
Molybdenum        100__    94___    88___    94___    91___    65___    93
Nickel____        0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0
Manganese_        1____    0____    0____    0____    0____    1____    0
Silver____        0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0
Titanium__        0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0
Potassium_        1____    1____    1____    0____    0____    1____    1
Boron_____        43___    42___    40___    47___    51___    60___    74
Silicon___        13___    11___    11___    12___    12___    14___    3
Sodium____        6____    6____    3____    5____    4____    7____    4
Calcium___        2456_    2234_    2210_    2273_    2220_    2341_    2080
Magnesium_        16___    13___    12___    11___    11___    32___    13
Phosphorus        668__    636__    599__    631__    613__    628__    770
Zinc______        806__    774__    700__    739__    720__    725__    871
Barium____        0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0____    0
ViscSUS210        51.9_    52___    51.5_    53.9_    52.2_    53-59    54
Flashpoint        370__    400__    370__    365__    370__    >355_    440
Fuel %____        <0.5_    <0.5_    <0.5_    <0.5_    <0.5_    <2.0_    
Antifrze %        0.0__    0.0__    0.0__    0.0__    0.0__    0.0__    
Water %___        0.0__    0.0__    0.0__    0.0__    0.0__    <0.1_    
Insolubl %        0.3__    0.3__    0.2__    0.4__    0.2__    <0.6_    
TBN_______        3.4__    4.4__    4.6__    2.9__    8.6__    _____    9.9
 
TBN of 2.9 was probably in error, 4.6 result rechecked twice (4.5, 4.7)                                
1/8 quart (4 oz ) Mobil 1 0W20 added 1/11/2006                                
5/8 quart (20 oz) Mobil 1 0W20 added mid Feb 2007                                
1/4 quart (8 oz) Mobil 1 0w20 added 4/3/2007

[FireEngineer]

Are you concerned by the gradual increase of iron?

Wayne

[ekpolk]

I was wondering that too, but it could just be gradual progressive accumulation as the oil ages. In other words, the same Fe that would have been in the next oil anyway, had he changed out earlier.

Nice that the fuel has stayed low. Coincidentally, I'm about to sample and change my car (this weekend). It will be interesting to see how the thick-ish GC I'm using compares. I'm also hoping my fuel dilution was a one-time thing. This result, and several others I've seen, appear to show that the fuel dilution that seems to plague some Prii is not a universal thing.

[dcoyne78]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FireEngineer @ May 11 2007, 09:05 AM) [snapback]439831[/snapback]</div>

Are you concerned by the gradual increase of iron?

Wayne
[/b]

Not really. The iron typically rises with mileage. At 12 K I am seeing 12 ppm Fe, at 5 K it was 5 ppm so there seems to be a gradual increase of 1 ppm per 1000 miles. Now that the warmer weather has finally arrived in Maine the wear will probably be even lower as much of the wear is due to cold startups (it stayed relatively cold here through most of April.) There is some inconsistency in the rate of increase of iron from sample to sample, but some of this is likely due to margins of error in the results. As long as I don't see a big change in the overall trend in wear metals, the TBN stays above 1.9, and the insolubles stay under control (less than 0.6), I plan to keep running the oil for a year and test every 2000 miles.

Edit: 12/11/2009 Test was ended at 15000 miles, later I managed 20000 miles, but only with a 2 quart drain and refill at 10000 miles and using a different oil (RLI 0w20).

Dennis

[FireEngineer]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ekpolk @ May 11 2007, 09:10 AM) [snapback]439879[/snapback]</div>

Coincidentally, I'm about to sample and change my car (this weekend). It will be interesting to see how the thick-ish GC I'm using compares. [/b]

That I will be looking forward to as I'm on my second GC fill, first one was last fall, took the winter with Mobil 1 0W20.

Wayne

[dcoyne78]

Did you notice any difference in Fuel economy with the GC?

[bruceha_2000]

Good timing on the thread. I am about to hit 40K miles so I've just gone out of warranty. The dealer always stuck a '+3250 miles' oil change reminder sticker on my window. I always peeled it off and trashed it before I started the car, 5K miles is recommended in the service manual. Even the Honda dealer only wanted to change the oil in my '95 Odyssey every 3750 miles and the engine in it ran ALL the time.

Now that I don't have to worry about voiding my warranty, I would like to extend the mileage between oil changes as long as the oil is good. I looked at the Blackstone site (cited) and found that the test costs $22.50, plus, I assume, the cost of shipping the sample to them. If one has to do this test every 1 or 2 thousand miles after hitting 5K to know WHEN the oil needs to be changed, it seems like a huge waste of money as it will cost MORE to have it analyzed than changed evey 5K.

Is this all about not wasting 'good' oil, or is there some $$ savings involved with testing?

[dmckinstry]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bruceha_2000 @ May 15 2007, 01:18 PM) [snapback]442696[/snapback]</div>

Good timing on the thread. I am about to hit 40K miles so I've just gone out of warranty. The dealer always stuck a '+3250 miles' oil change reminder sticker on my window. I always peeled it off and trashed it before I started the car, 5K miles is recommended in the service manual. Even the Honda dealer only wanted to change the oil in my '95 Odyssey every 3750 miles and the engine in it ran ALL the time.

Now that I don't have to worry about voiding my warranty, I would like to extend the mileage between oil changes as long as the oil is good. I looked at the Blackstone site (cited) and found that the test costs $22.50, plus, I assume, the cost of shipping the sample to them. If one has to do this test every 1 or 2 thousand miles after hitting 5K to know WHEN the oil needs to be changed, it seems like a huge waste of money as it will cost MORE to have it analyzed than changed evey 5K.

Is this all about not wasting 'good' oil, or is there some $$ savings involved with testing?
[/b]

I don't know about Blackstone, but with Caterpillar you buy the container which has the mailing prepaid. You fill it (~200 ml), mail it and wait for the report. It's only $12-13 from them, but the testing may not be as extensive (I haven't done a comparision) as Blackstone's.

Dave M.

[FireEngineer]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maineprius947 @ May 11 2007, 11:20 AM) [snapback]440004[/snapback]</div>

Did you notice any difference in Fuel economy with the GC?
[/b]

Well I can't say for sure but I had my former best tank on the GC in a warm November. And I'm almost at the end of the 5,000 interval on this GC and it is by far my best tank. Driver..oil..driver..oil?

Wayne

[dcoyne78]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bruceha_2000 @ May 15 2007, 04:18 PM) [snapback]442696[/snapback]</div>

Good timing on the thread. I am about to hit 40K miles so I've just gone out of warranty. The dealer always stuck a '+3250 miles' oil change reminder sticker on my window. I always peeled it off and trashed it before I started the car, 5K miles is recommended in the service manual. Even the Honda dealer only wanted to change the oil in my '95 Odyssey every 3750 miles and the engine in it ran ALL the time.

Now that I don't have to worry about voiding my warranty, I would like to extend the mileage between oil changes as long as the oil is good. I looked at the Blackstone site (cited) and found that the test costs $22.50, plus, I assume, the cost of shipping the sample to them. If one has to do this test every 1 or 2 thousand miles after hitting 5K to know WHEN the oil needs to be changed, it seems like a huge waste of money as it will cost MORE to have it analyzed than changed evey 5K.

Is this all about not wasting 'good' oil, or is there some $$ savings involved with testing?
[/b]

Actually your powertrain warranty is 60000 miles, so you should stick with 5k. It isn't necessary to do a used oil analysis as often as I have, I am just showing people what is possible in a Prius. If you are interested in extended oil change intervals, I think 10000 is safe with a good full synthetic. You could take a sample at 10k and continue running the oil if the analysis looks good (maybe for another 5k) or you could just change every 10k and skip the analysis. In Europe the oil change interval is 16000 km (10000 miles), so I am confident that if you use a ACEA 1 oil (most full synthetics meet this spec) 10k will be fine. You can stick with 5k until October when I have finished my test and see how far I can go. I will stop at 1 year or when the oil is used up (low TBN).

Edit 12/9/2009:

Due to inherent fuel dilution problems with the gen 2 prius, I think 5k ocis make more sense unless guided by oil analysis. Also Blackstone was not seeing the fuel dilution that Dyson Analysis detected so even oil analysis might not be enough, so I would stick with 5k oil change intervals to protect my engine.

Dennis