Dead 12v Battery --- A Glove Box Remedy?

Rokeby · 02-08-2008, 11:24 AM

The number of dead 12v battery threads gives me cause for concern --- one of these days I'm sure to forget and leave something on all night. I used the search tool to find and read a half-dozen or so threads on this topic. I'm thinking of something that will fit in the glovebox. [Edit 9/02/08: See thread list below.]

Distilling it all down, I have three questions:

Will this device plugged into the under-dash 12v power outlet with the Coastaletech mod be useable to boot the CPU(s?) with a dead aux battery?

Amazon.com: Black & Decker BB7B Simple Start 12-Volt Battery Booster: Automotive
Amazon.com: Black & Decker BB7B Simple Start 12-Volt Battery Booster: Automotive

**efusco** · 02-08-2008, 11:35 AM

It should, in theory, work. But I've never seen anyone post a first hand experience with it.

Ultimately I'd recommend one of the combo jumper/air pump 12v outlet boxes. They have a larger battery and are more versatile since it can be used to adjust tire pressure as well.

The 12v battery reports disproportionately suggest a problem. I've never had a 12v failure except at the end of my battery's life while listening to the radio for a time in the car in ACC mode.

I have left the Prius parked for up to 13 days without being driven without it dying...in those cases I DO bring my jumper box 'just in case'. Otherwise it stays in my garage.

icarus · 02-08-2008, 11:45 AM

If you are doing anything that requires your car to be jumped on any regular basis you are KILLING THE BATTERY!

While a small jump start device may be a good idea for those rare emergencies, goo battery care is a way better investment! If the car is going to sit for more than a couple of weeks, a small trickle charger, or a small solar charger will keep the 12vt battery at full float voltage.

The Hv battery will not be a problem if it goes down a bit over a few months. It will not sulphate like the flooded cell of the 12vdc battery.

Once again, I suggest all those with battery questions to read and UNDERSTAND some of the following: http://www.batteryfaq.org/

Icarus

markderail · 02-08-2008, 12:22 PM

Happened to me yesterday.

Rear parked against a snowbank on driver's side. Canada has Daytime Running Lights, that only turn off either :
- manually
- when auto, opening the driver's door when IG-OFF.

So, in this order :
1. Rear parked, tight spot, between snowbank and car
2. Opened driver door to see if I could get out.
3. Decided to stay put since my wife could get out on her side
4. Closed my door, then turned off car
5. Got out through front passenger door
6. Went to work
7. After work

felt stupid

Got a lift home, went back armed with my wife's Yaris, booster cables, and the ***wonderful*** reference material found on PriusChat.com.
Like how to open the door when dead 12v battery, how to jumper - boost a dead 12 battery from the hood.

The hardest part was figuring out how to open the fuse box.
There's a damning -> arrow on the plastic pointing right - useless.

To open the fusebox, it's due south, or due north, to unclip. Not much force required.

Fun in -10c winter at nighttime with a poorly lit parking lot. Used my cellphone as a flashlight.

Connect Red & Black to the Yaris (with motor off) battery.

The 12v Positive screw is protected with a red plastic, lift, OMG a TINY screw. The cable booster pincer just barely attached.

The black pincers to the body of car, and then . . .

The car alarm went off !!!

Used the FOB to "open" the car.

Then started the car normally, the HV Battery was fine, hardly used.
Had to turn on the heat to start the ICE and have the ICE stay on.
Remove the cables from the Prius. Then the Yaris.

From then on, no problems. Including the Fuse Box Dilemma, Winter, -10c, this took less then 10 minutes to do.

No need to access directly the 12v battery in the rear of the car, which for me, would have been impossible.

[NOTE : Detailed story so that the PriusChat search engine can help others that fall in the same trap I did. Thanks for reading

]

Personally I don't think an extra on-board battery for "emergency" boost is a good idea. A taxi can boost you, CAA or AAA, a friend. Easy to do.

markderail · 02-08-2008, 12:29 PM

[Edit: Haven't found a human powered car battery booster/generator. Anyone?]
[Edit: Patent Opportunity?]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rokeby

Will the start-up of the 'accumulator pump' ---whatever that is and does --- negate this whole approach?

Any human force device, would have to produce at least 13.5 DCV to trickle charge a dead 12v battery.

For the Prius, if the main HV Battery is not dead, would not need many amps, just enough to boot the computer and quickly press the IG-ON & foot on brake. Then the HV battery takes over, the 12v is no longer necessary.

I've seen human powered pumps / cranks, but they do 5.5 DCV for cellphones. They work well, I've used them at camping.

So I'd see a human powered generator as a good solution for boosting a car, but as an added benefit could also do your cellphone with a volt redux adapter.

If such a thing exists over at Canadian Tire I'll check it out.

Rokeby · 02-08-2008, 01:06 PM

Thank you Evan and icarus for your input.

I checked out the batteryfaq. My reaction; Holy Cow! Given a month of Sundays, I might just get through it all. In the meantime...

I'm trying to take a proactive, perhaps even preemptive, approach here. Other than driving my two month old Prius on a daily basis, I'm not doing anything, nor seen any signs, that would lead me to believe the 12v battery is in any trouble. Not at this very minute anyway.

I'm looking to develop a procedure so that if my significant other approaches the car and touches the door handle and nothing happens she can get the car started quickly and easily. And if that doesn't work, then it's time to call AAA.

Regardless of what she's wearing, who she's with, or where she is, I know for a fact that she's not going to get under the hood. Period. Forget any discussions about the complex interactions of the HSD, the CPUs, the what-cha-ma-call-its, thing-a-ma-bobs, etc. (That's what they're called, I looked it up in the owners manual, on page 5,437.) The come back goes something like; "Its a brand new car, I should just be able to get in it and drive. What do you mean I can be locked out on the street? Maybe we should have bought he Corolla/Versa/etc." A wholly not unreasonable line of argument.

If at all possible, I want to develop a simple procedure that can be accomplished --- after using the mechanical key to open the door --- while sitting in the driver's seat. But first off, I need to identify the physical pieces to solve the puzzle.

miscrms · 02-08-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rokeby

I'm looking to develop a procedure so that if my significant other approaches the car and touches the door handle and nothing happens she can get the car started quickly and easily. And if that doesn't work, then it's time to call AAA.

Makes sense. Actually the unit you linked looks pretty good to me. It runs 18V/3Ah internally and can put out 12V at 7A for 15 min. This is probably enough to start the Prius immediately, but certainly after a few minutes. I think the only unknown is the Coastal mod and whether this will give you a clear enough path back to the battery. I would expect so, but you would have to try it and find out. For a ~$50 investment, I'd say its probably worth trying. If the coastal mod doesn't seem to do it, you could always run a dedicated wire back to the battery and stick a female outlet plug on the end. Maybe run it into the center console? The only real trick with any of these battery boosters is that you have to remember to plug them in every so often to top up the internal battery. At least with this one you can also charge from the 12V aux outlet, rather than having to take it out and plug it in.

Rob

SyCo · 02-08-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markderail

[Edit: Haven't found a human powered car battery booster/generator. Anyone?]
[Edit: Patent Opportunity?]

WEZA 12v FOOT CRANK PORTABLE POWER SOURCE

**efusco** · 02-08-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SyCo

WEZA 12v FOOT CRANK PORTABLE POWER SOURCE

Cool item...but pricey.

Rokeby · 02-08-2008, 02:16 PM

Mark,

your story only reinforces my, now more than ever, strongly held belief that there will come a time, sooner or later, that I will have a dead 12v battery.

Only by reading your post over a few times was I able to understand the small departure from your normal routine that was your downfall. It was getting out the passenger side door, wasn't it? (I've read in a 'need a trash container' thread that Toyota designed the center console so just this thing can be done! What the right hand givith, the left hand taketh away.)

Typically, I get through the mundane parts of my day-to-day life using tried and true behavioral subroutines. But, every so often, usually when I'm in a hurry, some little glitch results in a small deviation, or the conditions are ever so slightly different. Unthinkingly I follow the subroutine. BAP! And I realize that I weren't really paying attention... a Homer Simpson moment.

I'm sure that there are many more mysterious ways that the dead battery scenario can be called forth from where it lurks, waiting, ever so quietly in the dark.

mrscrms,

thanks for the encouragement. I've thought it might be a good thing to have 12v power port in the trunk? area. Maybe on the side opposite the battery, in the storage area. That way I could plug in a 12v tire pump with out climbing into the drivers seat. (No, I would not put a charger in the car and plug it in here)

Yes, I too liked the charge-in-the-car feature. Just charge it on the AM commute once a month or so. (Must remember to unplug it when I get to work)

syco.

re:

WEZA 12v FOOT CRANK PORTABLE POWER SOURCE

Truly brilliant, but I can't see my SO doing that either. Thanks anyway... brilliant.

02-08-2008, 11:35 AM	#2
efusco Troll Slayer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nixa, MO Posts: 18,035 My Car: 2004 Prius Model: Package: #9 Thanks: 102 Thanked 499 Times in 268 Posts Friends: 41	Re: Dead 12v Battery --- A Glove Box Remedy? It should, in theory, work. But I've never seen anyone post a first hand experience with it. Ultimately I'd recommend one of the combo jumper/air pump 12v outlet boxes. They have a larger battery and are more versatile since it can be used to adjust tire pressure as well. The 12v battery reports disproportionately suggest a problem. I've never had a 12v failure except at the end of my battery's life while listening to the radio for a time in the car in ACC mode. I have left the Prius parked for up to 13 days without being driven without it dying...in those cases I DO bring my jumper box 'just in case'. Otherwise it stays in my garage. __________________ Evan E. Fusco, MD "It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." -Andrew Jackson

02-08-2008, 11:45 AM	#3
icarus Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: quetico, on/bellingham, wa Posts: 1,936 My Car: 2007 Prius Model: Package: #7 Thanks: 133 Thanked 172 Times in 122 Posts Friends: 3	Re: Dead 12v Battery --- A Glove Box Remedy? If you are doing anything that requires your car to be jumped on any regular basis you are KILLING THE BATTERY! While a small jump start device may be a good idea for those rare emergencies, goo battery care is a way better investment! If the car is going to sit for more than a couple of weeks, a small trickle charger, or a small solar charger will keep the 12vt battery at full float voltage. The Hv battery will not be a problem if it goes down a bit over a few months. It will not sulphate like the flooded cell of the 12vdc battery. Once again, I suggest all those with battery questions to read and UNDERSTAND some of the following: http://www.batteryfaq.org/ Icarus

02-08-2008, 12:22 PM	#4
markderail 4-Seasons Driver Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pierrefonds (Montreal) Quebec Canada Posts: 1,820 My Car: 2006 Prius Model: Package: B Thanks: 136 Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts Friends: 9	Dead 12v - boosting how-to jumper cable story Happened to me yesterday. Rear parked against a snowbank on driver's side. Canada has Daytime Running Lights, that only turn off either : - manually - when auto, opening the driver's door when IG-OFF. So, in this order : 1. Rear parked, tight spot, between snowbank and car 2. Opened driver door to see if I could get out. 3. Decided to stay put since my wife could get out on her side 4. Closed my door, then turned off car 5. Got out through front passenger door 6. Went to work 7. After work felt stupid Got a lift home, went back armed with my wife's Yaris, booster cables, and the *wonderful* reference material found on PriusChat.com. Like how to open the door when dead 12v battery, how to jumper - boost a dead 12 battery from the hood. The hardest part was figuring out how to open the fuse box. There's a damning -> arrow on the plastic pointing right - useless. To open the fusebox, it's due south, or due north, to unclip. Not much force required. Fun in -10c winter at nighttime with a poorly lit parking lot. Used my cellphone as a flashlight. Connect Red & Black to the Yaris (with motor off) battery. The 12v Positive screw is protected with a red plastic, lift, OMG a TINY screw. The cable booster pincer just barely attached. The black pincers to the body of car, and then . . . The car alarm went off !!! Used the FOB to "open" the car. Then started the car normally, the HV Battery was fine, hardly used. Had to turn on the heat to start the ICE and have the ICE stay on. Remove the cables from the Prius. Then the Yaris. From then on, no problems. Including the Fuse Box Dilemma, Winter, -10c, this took less then 10 minutes to do. No need to access directly the 12v battery in the rear of the car, which for me, would have been impossible. [NOTE : Detailed story so that the PriusChat search engine can help others that fall in the same trap I did. Thanks for reading ] Personally I don't think an extra on-board battery for "emergency" boost is a good idea. A taxi can boost you, CAA or AAA, a friend. Easy to do. __________________ Learn more about Folding

02-08-2008, 01:06 PM	#6
Rokeby Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ballamer, Merlin Posts: 1,803 My Car: 2008 Prius Model: Package: #6 Touring Thanks: 166 Thanked 154 Times in 112 Posts Friends: 2	Re: Dead 12v Battery --- A Glove Box Remedy? Thank you Evan and icarus for your input. I checked out the batteryfaq. My reaction; Holy Cow! Given a month of Sundays, I might just get through it all. In the meantime... I'm trying to take a proactive, perhaps even preemptive, approach here. Other than driving my two month old Prius on a daily basis, I'm not doing anything, nor seen any signs, that would lead me to believe the 12v battery is in any trouble. Not at this very minute anyway. I'm looking to develop a procedure so that if my significant other approaches the car and touches the door handle and nothing happens she can get the car started quickly and easily. And if that doesn't work, then it's time to call AAA. Regardless of what she's wearing, who she's with, or where she is, I know for a fact that she's not going to get under the hood. Period. Forget any discussions about the complex interactions of the HSD, the CPUs, the what-cha-ma-call-its, thing-a-ma-bobs, etc. (That's what they're called, I looked it up in the owners manual, on page 5,437.) The come back goes something like; "Its a brand new car, I should just be able to get in it and drive. What do you mean I can be locked out on the street? Maybe we should have bought he Corolla/Versa/etc." A wholly not unreasonable line of argument. If at all possible, I want to develop a simple procedure that can be accomplished --- after using the mechanical key to open the door --- while sitting in the driver's seat. But first off, I need to identify the physical pieces to solve the puzzle.

02-08-2008, 02:16 PM	#10
Rokeby Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ballamer, Merlin Posts: 1,803 My Car: 2008 Prius Model: Package: #6 Touring Thanks: 166 Thanked 154 Times in 112 Posts Friends: 2	Re: Dead 12v Battery --- A Glove Box Remedy? Mark, your story only reinforces my, now more than ever, strongly held belief that there will come a time, sooner or later, that I will have a dead 12v battery. Only by reading your post over a few times was I able to understand the small departure from your normal routine that was your downfall. It was getting out the passenger side door, wasn't it? (I've read in a 'need a trash container' thread that Toyota designed the center console so just this thing can be done! What the right hand givith, the left hand taketh away.) Typically, I get through the mundane parts of my day-to-day life using tried and true behavioral subroutines. But, every so often, usually when I'm in a hurry, some little glitch results in a small deviation, or the conditions are ever so slightly different. Unthinkingly I follow the subroutine. BAP! And I realize that I weren't really paying attention... a Homer Simpson moment. I'm sure that there are many more mysterious ways that the dead battery scenario can be called forth from where it lurks, waiting, ever so quietly in the dark. mrscrms, thanks for the encouragement. I've thought it might be a good thing to have 12v power port in the trunk? area. Maybe on the side opposite the battery, in the storage area. That way I could plug in a 12v tire pump with out climbing into the drivers seat. (No, I would not put a charger in the car and plug it in here) Yes, I too liked the charge-in-the-car feature. Just charge it on the AM commute once a month or so. (Must remember to unplug it when I get to work) syco. re: WEZA 12v FOOT CRANK PORTABLE POWER SOURCE Truly brilliant, but I can't see my SO doing that either. Thanks anyway... brilliant.