You will not get 50 MPG if...

wfolta · 08-02-2009, 01:09 PM

None of this means you're a bad person. It's just meant to give some thoughts on why you might not be getting EPA mileage (or better) in your driving. As the ads say, YMMV, and even if you don't achieve EPA, you're probably getting better mileage -- for the same geography, climate, weather, and driving style/habits -- than any other car you might choose. For your consideration, you probably won't get 50 MPG if...

1a. You drive 5 miles to work. The car gets relatively low mileage while warming up, so you take a big mileage hit at the start of every trip, and need to run long enough to overcome that initial deficit.

How far do you have to drive to get 50 MPG? As one example, I drive 11 miles to work in a mixture of city, open highway, and stop-n-go backed up highway, and get 50 MPG without much trouble.

1b. You drive a bit farther than 1a, but you "warm up" the car for several minutes before driving. ("Warming up" is getting 0 MPG, and it doesn't help the car.)

1c. You drive a bit farther than 1a, but you drive the car hard while it's warming up. (The engine's not getting great mileage anyhow, plus the car will use maximal electric power to keep down the strain on the cold engine, further wasting energy.)

2a. You stick like glue to the car in front of you, and don't let anyone beat you coming off of a traffic light. If you spend a lot of time in the red "PWR" acceleration zone and brake hard, you'll get poor mileage. Better than you would have if you drove like this in another car, but not 50 MPG.

2b. You either don't look at traffic ahead, or you do so only to note in the back of your mind that you're going to have to stop up where the red lights are all on. You don't need to leave huge gaps ahead of you, but if you find yourself accelerating towards a car that's stopped/slowing in front of you, you won't get good mileage.

2c. You never coast. You're either on the gas or on the brakes.

2d. You spend a lot of time going 75+ MPH.

2e. You think that Cruise Control gets better mileage than a human driver. (CC only saves gas to the extent that it keeps you from going 75+ MPH. Otherwise, it makes stupid choices.)

3a. It's winter, or you drive in cold, rainy/snowy weather a lot. (Longer engine warmup, precipitation on the road slowing you.) Or it's summer and you live where it's extremely hot. (High air conditioning use, not in terms of it being on, but in terms of high temperature differentials.)

Tip: In hot weather, open windows to get the hot air out, then set on manual, recirculate, 78 degrees (if the outside temperature is 80+), with the vents pointing at you at first, then near you afterwards, running the fan at whatever speed seems reasonable. I thought the recommendation to set the A/C to 78 degrees was for mileage-masochists until I tried it.

3b. You like to drive at interstate speeds with your windows down.

3c. You go uphill to work, then uphill again to home.

4a. You're so enamored with the fact that you can run on battery-only that you do this as much as you possibly can, mistakenly believing that's why the Prius is efficient.

4b. You're trying "too hard" to get good mileage, or based on a naive understanding of how the car actually works: running on battery too much, as in 4a. Or accelerating extremely slowly. Or figuring that regenerative braking is really efficient so braking must be a really good way to charge the battery. Etc. (Read the forums for tips on driving truly efficiently.)

5. You're on your first or second tank of gas. Especially if you measure your MPG by how much gas you put in versus how far you drove, which can be very misleading over short timeframes -- doubly so if you're assuming the dealer filled the tank as you might.

The car's mileage also increases 10% or so over the first 1,000 miles, as the drive train and tires break in.

6. You're not sure what the tire inflation is. Most people who get good mileage do so with tires inflated over Toyota's recommendations (though not more than the tire's sidewall), but you don't need this to achieve 50 MPG. On the other hand, if you're assuming that the dealer set it properly and haven't bothered to check it yourself, that could be the issue.

anne1965 · 08-02-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wfolta

3a. It's winter, or you drive in cold, rainy/snowy weather a lot. (Longer engine warmup, precipitation on the road slowing you.) Or it's summer and you live where it's extremely hot. (High air conditioning use, not in terms of it being on, but in terms of high temperature differentials.)

What I did in my Gen II in winter is switching off the heating for the first 2.5 km. The interior doesn't noticeably heat during such that distance and it will prevent the engine to be kept on all the time because it needs to warm up the interior. It took my first 5-min block from 7.5 l/100km down to 6 or so.

Now I believe that the Gen II in the US and Europe are different, the US version being more reluctant to shut down the ICE under any circumstance. So this may not have the same impact as on the US version. Since no Gen III's have been driven in real winter conditions, we'll have to see how its fuel consumption responds to interior heating settings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wfolta

4b. ...Or accelerating extremely slowly....

Well, I can only accelerate not extremely slowly by going into the PWR area on the hybrid system indicator, which makes the ECO light go out. I suspect the Toyota engineers did that for a reason... So, by avoiding the PWR area, I do accelerate extremely slowly. But that may boil down to a difference in opinion about what 'extremely slowly' is.

alfon · 08-02-2009, 03:02 PM

My wife drives and she get 46-48 MPG, she does not drive for gas mileage. She drives to get where she wants to go, and back.

Now, when I drive, my normal style, I get 52-55 MPG, calculated by miles driven and gallons used. I am not a hyprmiler, I drive at or a little above the speed limit.

Driving style is probably why there is a difference.

So, if you do not want to get 50 MPG have my wife drive your car.

alfon

bwilson4web · 08-02-2009, 04:07 PM

Sometimes it is easier to understand a set of positive guidelines and minimize use of "not." Otherwise, a nice list.

Bob Wilson

namasteflc · 08-02-2009, 04:23 PM

Has anyone installed an engine crankcase heater for the winter?
To answer 4a: I try to use EV mode the last 1/2 mile of my journey, through the developement's 25 mph speed limit. I figure that the engine needs to run when I restart the car anyway, so why not let it recharge the battery.
Frank

Bob64 · 08-02-2009, 04:46 PM

Nama,

Because its busy warming itself up. Its not producing much of any electrical or mechanical power whatsoever. It generates mebbie 10 amps of power, which you can barely crawl to 15mph in 20 seconds if you don't use any battery power.

rahamanmd · 08-02-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namasteflc

Has anyone installed an engine crankcase heater for the winter?
To answer 4a: I try to use EV mode the last 1/2 mile of my journey, through the developement's 25 mph speed limit. I figure that the engine needs to run when I restart the car anyway, so why not let it recharge the battery.
Frank

I do the same!

**TonyPSchaefer** · 08-02-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namasteflc

Has anyone installed an engine crankcase heater for the winter?

Try this link: It's the results page of a search for EBH (engine block heater).
Online resource for the Toyota Prius offering discussion forums, research, and shopping. - Search Results for engine block heater

fred garvin · 08-02-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namasteflc

Has anyone installed an engine crankcase heater for the winter?
To answer 4a: I try to use EV mode the last 1/2 mile of my journey, through the developement's 25 mph speed limit. I figure that the engine needs to run when I restart the car anyway, so why not let it recharge the battery.
Frank

i do this too, just not in EV mode. In eco mode, on the screen showing the ECO light and the zones (not the one with the pics of the motors) i use the gas pedal to keep the indicator just below the halfway point. unless the SOC is way low, this keeps it in battery only up to about 41 mph. I find this works the same or better than the EV mode button.

cossie1600 · 08-04-2009, 11:59 AM

50mpg, I can't even get above 43!

08-02-2009, 01:09 PM	#1
wfolta Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Washington DC Posts: 254 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: III Package: No Package Thanks: 9 Thanked 45 Times in 24 Posts Friends: 0	You will not get 50 MPG if... None of this means you're a bad person. It's just meant to give some thoughts on why you might not be getting EPA mileage (or better) in your driving. As the ads say, YMMV, and even if you don't achieve EPA, you're probably getting better mileage -- for the same geography, climate, weather, and driving style/habits -- than any other car you might choose. For your consideration, you probably won't get 50 MPG if... 1a. You drive 5 miles to work. The car gets relatively low mileage while warming up, so you take a big mileage hit at the start of every trip, and need to run long enough to overcome that initial deficit. How far do you have to drive to get 50 MPG? As one example, I drive 11 miles to work in a mixture of city, open highway, and stop-n-go backed up highway, and get 50 MPG without much trouble. 1b. You drive a bit farther than 1a, but you "warm up" the car for several minutes before driving. ("Warming up" is getting 0 MPG, and it doesn't help the car.) 1c. You drive a bit farther than 1a, but you drive the car hard while it's warming up. (The engine's not getting great mileage anyhow, plus the car will use maximal electric power to keep down the strain on the cold engine, further wasting energy.) 2a. You stick like glue to the car in front of you, and don't let anyone beat you coming off of a traffic light. If you spend a lot of time in the red "PWR" acceleration zone and brake hard, you'll get poor mileage. Better than you would have if you drove like this in another car, but not 50 MPG. 2b. You either don't look at traffic ahead, or you do so only to note in the back of your mind that you're going to have to stop up where the red lights are all on. You don't need to leave huge gaps ahead of you, but if you find yourself accelerating towards a car that's stopped/slowing in front of you, you won't get good mileage. 2c. You never coast. You're either on the gas or on the brakes. 2d. You spend a lot of time going 75+ MPH. 2e. You think that Cruise Control gets better mileage than a human driver. (CC only saves gas to the extent that it keeps you from going 75+ MPH. Otherwise, it makes stupid choices.) 3a. It's winter, or you drive in cold, rainy/snowy weather a lot. (Longer engine warmup, precipitation on the road slowing you.) Or it's summer and you live where it's extremely hot. (High air conditioning use, not in terms of it being on, but in terms of high temperature differentials.) Tip: In hot weather, open windows to get the hot air out, then set on manual, recirculate, 78 degrees (if the outside temperature is 80+), with the vents pointing at you at first, then near you afterwards, running the fan at whatever speed seems reasonable. I thought the recommendation to set the A/C to 78 degrees was for mileage-masochists until I tried it. 3b. You like to drive at interstate speeds with your windows down. 3c. You go uphill to work, then uphill again to home. 4a. You're so enamored with the fact that you can run on battery-only that you do this as much as you possibly can, mistakenly believing that's why the Prius is efficient. 4b. You're trying "too hard" to get good mileage, or based on a naive understanding of how the car actually works: running on battery too much, as in 4a. Or accelerating extremely slowly. Or figuring that regenerative braking is really efficient so braking must be a really good way to charge the battery. Etc. (Read the forums for tips on driving truly efficiently.) 5. You're on your first or second tank of gas. Especially if you measure your MPG by how much gas you put in versus how far you drove, which can be very misleading over short timeframes -- doubly so if you're assuming the dealer filled the tank as you might. The car's mileage also increases 10% or so over the first 1,000 miles, as the drive train and tires break in. 6. You're not sure what the tire inflation is. Most people who get good mileage do so with tires inflated over Toyota's recommendations (though not more than the tire's sidewall), but you don't need this to achieve 50 MPG. On the other hand, if you're assuming that the dealer set it properly and haven't bothered to check it yourself, that could be the issue. Last edited by wfolta; 08-02-2009 at 04:33 PM. Reason: Clarifications.

08-02-2009, 03:02 PM	#3
alfon Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: seaside, oregon Posts: 185 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: III Package: Navigation Thanks: 0 Thanked 44 Times in 15 Posts Friends: 0	Re: You will not get 50 MPG if... My wife drives and she get 46-48 MPG, she does not drive for gas mileage. She drives to get where she wants to go, and back. Now, when I drive, my normal style, I get 52-55 MPG, calculated by miles driven and gallons used. I am not a hyprmiler, I drive at or a little above the speed limit. Driving style is probably why there is a difference. So, if you do not want to get 50 MPG have my wife drive your car. alfon

08-02-2009, 04:07 PM	#4
bwilson4web 03 and 10 Prius Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Huntsville AL with 2003 Prius Posts: 3,848 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: III Package: #1 Thanks: 146 Thanked 366 Times in 202 Posts Friends: 20	Re: You will not get 50 MPG if... Sometimes it is easier to understand a set of positive guidelines and minimize use of "not." Otherwise, a nice list. Bob Wilson

08-02-2009, 04:23 PM	#5
namasteflc Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Georgetown Md Posts: 24 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: II Package: Base Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Friends: 0	Re: You will not get 50 MPG if... Has anyone installed an engine crankcase heater for the winter? To answer 4a: I try to use EV mode the last 1/2 mile of my journey, through the developement's 25 mph speed limit. I figure that the engine needs to run when I restart the car anyway, so why not let it recharge the battery. Frank

08-02-2009, 04:46 PM	#6
Bob64 Sapphire of the Blue Sky Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,132 My Car: 2007 Prius Model: N/A Package: #2 Thanks: 3 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Friends: 0	Re: You will not get 50 MPG if... Nama, Because its busy warming itself up. Its not producing much of any electrical or mechanical power whatsoever. It generates mebbie 10 amps of power, which you can barely crawl to 15mph in 20 seconds if you don't use any battery power.

08-04-2009, 11:59 AM	#10
cossie1600 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: CT Posts: 181 My Car: 2010 Prius Model: II Package: No Package Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts Friends: 0	Re: You will not get 50 MPG if... 50mpg, I can't even get above 43!