Just lost all my respect for Car and Driver

[wvgasguy]

I'll give it up after this observation.

I guess being declaired an "enthusiast" has difficulties standing the test of time. I was just looking at some spec's on what might be classified, at least in their prime, enthusiast cars. The 260Z and BMW 320i were cult cars in their time. People who drove them were probably considered enthusiast. However the spec's for power, 0-60 times and skidpad results are actually fairly close to the 2010 prius V.

Does a car once it becomes out dated and outperformed by mere economy cars of the now future lose their status of enthusiast car? If the term has any relativity towards pure specs then these now need to be tossed from the list. Surely a restored to original spec car from this era would now be a boring car to drive. Not only that but they got poor milage. Looking back they were just slow gas guzzling sports cars and sedans. I can't believe now looking back as to how excited I was when I drove my new 1981 BMW320i

My whole point with the C&D comments wasn't with their dislike of the Prius, heck I would have never bought one before the 2010 myself, it was simply their narrow definition of what qualifies one to be an enthusiast.

[hybridtwins]

Originally Posted by accordingly

Enthusiast appeal refers to how fun the vehicle is to drive. Not how many miles it goes per gallon, not how infrequently it breaks down, and not how technologically advanced it is. And certainly not how much Prius owners like their Prius.

They are absolutely correct, the Prius is not a car anyone who enjoys cars would recommend for autocrossing or taking on twisty roads in the mountains. It has horrible steering feel and not very much power. It rides more like a couch than a car. This is what all Toyotas, not just the Prius, are designed to drive like. They are made for people who want to go from point A to point B without caring about how many Gs they can pull in the corners or how crisp the handling feels.

That's why Car and Driver always puts the Hondas on its best cars lists and never the Toyotas- they are simply not designed to be fun to drive physically. Enthusiast appeal does not have anything to do with how fun it is to brag about your mileage or technology, it has to do with how the car feels on the road. A car enthusiast dreams of driving a 650Hp McLaren F1 with no power steering on a track as hard and as fast as they can drive, not pressing buttons and looking at cartoon screens while floating down the road on the way to run errands. That's fun to do too, but it's not what I'd call "enthusiast driving".

I think this could be qualified somewhat as it's also a matter of degree.

Aside from my Prius, I've test-driven a Mini Cooper S. I've also at one time owned a Ford Crown Victoria.

There's no question that the Mini out-handles and smokes the Prius off the line... but at the same time, the Prius easily out-handles the Crown Vic.

Understanding and appreciating the real-world differences of these cars, I do in fact enjoy driving the Prius on twisty mountain roads.

There are also a couple of performance/handling characteristics that are almost completely unique to the Prius.

One is the 30.5' turning circle of my 2002. Few cars currently can match this level of nimbleness, save for either microcars like the Smart Car or low-end models like the Toyota Yaris. Comes in very handy in the urban jungle wherein I spend most of the time driving.

The other unique feature, a result of the hybrid power-train, is the absolutely smooth acceleration up to speed, given that no shifting of gears takes place. Only a pure electric vehicle might accelerate more smoothly, and while this does not a hot-rod make, there is a definite physicality to this performance that for me is a valid sensibility.

[cycledrum]

I believe Car and Driver likes cars that can handle some business on twisty back roads.

Hate to break it to you, but the Gen2, non-touring Prius (why are we talking gen2 anyway? 2009 was mentioned in OP)...

seems tepid on twisty, challenging backroads. Oftentimes there are drivers out for a little fun on a backroad, nothing crazy fast, but decent pace. I don't feel comfortable doing anything near 'spirited' in my 2009, on tight, curvy roads. Then again, I baby the car.

And I've seen Bay Area backroads hundreds of times on 2 wheels. One of those pesky sportbikers. Less lately.

But, I enjoy my car for what it is - quiet, smooth, docile, economical ...

[sorka]

Originally Posted by wvgasguy

I have found driving the TCH (and expect the Prius to be the same) as "interesting" as driving my "enthusiast" cars. On this list I've had Two 300ZX's, a Vette, an AudiTT, a 350Z, and an Infiniti FX45. They were all fun to drive but most of the time I simply was driving them nowhere near the limits. They simply looked cool. Looking cool is 90% of what people get out of these cars as very few people race on weekends or consistantly exceed the limits to any degree.

I started with your list and thought I was reading my own message for a split second. I've had 3 300zx TT, a C5, and an FX45 too.

[johnnyp500]

What a ridiculous thread. Just because someone has a different opinion than yours on car and driver you start this whole new thread called Just lost all my respect for Car and Driver
So you want to tell me that you lost your whole respect for a well known, quality car magazine just because he gave that piece of crap a 1/10. Of course its gonna have a 1/10 its a piece of crap!!!(the old one anyway)

I drove a Prius for the first time last week, rented one in CA. Thats gotta be the WORST car ive ever driven and the noise... SO MUCH Noise I had the stereo on max volume and still didnt hear the music, my back was hurting, I think its the first time I stopped in EVERY rest area i saw just to get out of that torture. I even changed my facebook status to "what goes in a zig zag no matter how hard u try to keep it straight? A Prius" u should change the title to good job car and driver for giving an enthusiast 1/10 cause it deserves a 0!

[cwerdna]

Originally Posted by johnnyp500

What a ridiculous thread. Just because someone has a different opinion than yours on car and driver you start this whole new thread called Just lost all my respect for Car and Driver
So you want to tell me that you lost your whole respect for a well known, quality car magazine just because he gave that piece of crap a 1/10. Of course its gonna have a 1/10 its a piece of crap!!!(the old one anyway)

I drove a Prius for the first time last week, rented one in CA. Thats gotta be the WORST car ive ever driven and the noise... SO MUCH Noise I had the stereo on max volume and still didnt hear the music, my back was hurting, I think its the first time I stopped in EVERY rest area i saw just to get out of that torture. I even changed my facebook status to "what goes in a zig zag no matter how hard u try to keep it straight? A Prius" u should change the title to good job car and driver for giving an enthusiast 1/10 cause it deserves a 0!

Good lord! What a bunch of drivel your post is. Sigh... From looking at your prior posts, you've delivered enough misinformation already so I'm even doubtful you actually did drive one. From some of your earlier exchanges, I don't think you made too many friends here and I think that list just got shorter.

I've driven FAR worse cars than the Prius and can name some of them off the top of my head: Chevy Cavalier, Pontiac Sunfire, Chevy Metro, Chevy Chevette, Daewoo Lanos, Chevy Classic

Sure, it's louder than your Lexus RX400h, but it's got a lot less road noise than my 350Z and quieter at full throttle. The "premium" stereo on mine is fine and plenty loud enough even at 80 mph.

And gee, I've driven it >520 miles each way from San Jose, CA to Vegas and back. I just got back from a >350 mile drive to LA, drove >300 miles while in the LA are and drove back another 350 miles to San Jose. I had no back pain and it was certainly not torture.

The Prius is such a crappy car that it was CR's top car for owner satisfaction 5 years in a row (Best and worst in new car owner satisfaction: Car owner, auto shopping). "Ninety-three percent of Prius owners who responded said they would definitely buy or lease one again. "

Toyota Prius Touring Tops Consumer Reports First Ever Best New-Car Value List: Consumer Reports http://pressroom.consumerreports.org/pressroom/ the touring version was named best overall value.

I'm a car enthusiast and err, a 1/10 for an "enthusiast" score is way too low and out of line. Many here on PC are Prius enthusiasts and certainly wouldn't give it a 1 either.

[patsparks]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nelsby

Whoops, quick edit. Even though there are 2010 reviews on the page, the ranking is actually for the 2009, but I still stand by my loss or respect for C&D



...they gave the new Prius a 1/10 for "Enthusiast appeal" which they explain as being how much a car enthusiast would be interested in "driving said car on a Sunday afternoon" or something like that...

... I mean really. I can understand that a luxury car centric "enthusiast" might not consider the Prius on the top of their list in terms of Sunday drive cars, but to claim that this car is something like enthusiast kryptonite shows that whoever is giving out these rankings is just being spiteful for their own silly reasons...

I mean, who determines who is an "enthusiast" anyway? I feel like an enthusiast when it comes to my current prius and I would give myself a 9/10 in terms of my excitement when it comes to the idea of driving a 2010 next fall when I get one...

Plah... what silliness...

Here's the link to the page:
2009 Toyota Prius - Car And Driver

Would a person who travelled across the globe, 14 hours over the Pacific plus a 1.5 and 3 hour connecting flight either end and a 4 hour each way drive just to see the new model of his favourite car be considered an enthusiast? I did just that!
How about a guy who has driven his Prius on 3 journeys that exceed 3000 km each way in the last 2 year? Twice alone and once with his family.
I'm a paid up member of the Sporting Car Club, does that make me an enthusiast?
How about a group of people who spend a significant amount of their leisure time on a car related website, a Prius site. A site with 49734 members!

Who defines what a car enthusiast is and what appeals to an enthusiast.

I'll add to this I get excited about my 1968 Toyota Crown which would record a 1/4 mile time which exceeds 20 seconds and handles like a wet sponge. I'm still an enthusiast.

[robbyr2]

I drove a Prius for the first time last week, rented one in CA. Thats gotta be the WORST car ive ever driven and the noise... SO MUCH Noise I had the stereo on max volume and still didnt hear the music, my back was hurting, I think its the first time I stopped in EVERY rest area i saw just to get out of that torture. I even changed my facebook status to "what goes in a zig zag no matter how hard u try to keep it straight? A Prius" u should change the title to good job car and driver for giving an enthusiast 1/10 cause it deserves a 0!

600 miles each way on a 4-day weekend= no back pain and the music was fine. Very little noise too, even with the 25 mph wind I was driving into. There was no zigging or zagging even with that wind. Best cruise control I've experienced (in 37 years of driving). Maybe not quite as comfortable, quiet or unfazed by the wind as my 90 Cadillac Sedan DeVille was, but close enough.

Of course, driving skills and drivers differ.

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by johnnyp500

. . .
I drove a Prius for the first time last week, rented one in CA.

You probably drove the NHW20, 2004-09 model. But if you'll let us know the rental company, we'll be happy to call and ask if we can rent a 2010 Prius. This would solve a problem of getting a 2010 for an extended test drive.

Originally Posted by johnnyp500

. . .Thats gotta be the WORST car ive ever driven and the noise... SO MUCH Noise I had the stereo on max volume and still didnt hear the music, my back was hurting, I think its the first time I stopped in EVERY rest area i saw just to get out of that torture.

Your height and weight? Any pre-existing medical problems?

As a general rule, driven at the speed limit, the Prius is very quiet. But Georgia speeds on under inflated, new tires, on a concrete highways, it can be pretty noisy.

Bob Wilson

[johnnyp500]

I drove an 08 model rented through Thrifty from San Jose to LA and back. Nightmare. And btw Ive never drove the 2010. But if the 2010 is anything close to that one I really think Toyota's marketing is amazing to get all this hype and all these 'Prius huggers' anxiously awaiting the 2010 while loving their <2010. Im sure Toyota management gets up every morning and laughs for about an hour before they start working.

CWERDNA - I have enough friends, I dont need to make them here and I dont think its relevant to this discussion. I couldn't be bothered to read your entire post cause it was boring so i skipped to the last sentence -> I'm a car enthusiast and err, a 1/10 for an "enthusiast" score is way too low and out of line. Many here on PC are Prius enthusiasts and certainly wouldn't give it a 1 either. You and the "many here" are entitled to their opinions just like anyone else. I think 1/10 enthusiast rating is a complement for the Prius.