Prius in deep (15cm+) loose snow (Results)

[Tideland Prius]

So the city got dumped with 15-20cm of snow. Most of it is plowed but as typical residential streets and private roads are not plowed. This gave me a chance to try out the Prius in deep snow (not that I actually looked for a street to play in since I had to visit a friend anyway).

Tyre: Nokian Hakkapeliita R winter tyres.


Given that it's late and I'm tired from pushing my friend's cars, here's a summary

• TRAC worked as advertised in my video
• 15cm is definitely the limit of the Prius (and I'm sure most passenger cars. Even SUVs/pickups had some issues but definitely not related to clearance)
• Getting stuck sucks. Winter tyres won't help if the Prius is high grounded
• I managed to get the TRAC to kill all power like the 04-05 Prius (more on that below)
• Once stuck, it seems that normal mode is better than ECO mode. ECO mode doesn't want to give power while normal will just flood the tyres with torque and let the wheels spin
• Once spinning, it's easy to modulate the rate of wheel spin. You can have it rotate as if you're crawling or let the snow fly!! Not that you're getting anywhere but I thought that was an interesting observation when i was looking out the window as the bystanders helped push
• On the contrary, my other friend with a RAV4 AWD and Nokian WRG2 got around fine yesterday before the snow plows cleared the main streets as well as the residential streets.
• Will check for damage later (if any). There shouldn't be any since the snow is still soft
• Dunno if it's because it's loose "dry" snow vs. wet snow but the snow didn't pile up in the wheel well like I thought it'd would. Maybe it's b/c of the lack of mudguards??
  

Issues related to the cold:

• Damn tonneau cover won't fully retract. I can't even feed it in (was possible at 0°C but not possible at -10°C)

TRAC:

Yes I managed to get it to kill all power. The bystanders asked if I was in reverse and I said yes. The pedal was all the way to the ground. The only way to make it stop doing that was the same method I used on the 05 - shift to D and back to R again.


It happened twice. I don't remember what I did. Maybe I floored it too quickly??? It never happened if I just gunned it on a slippery surface (see TRAC video) so it has to be something to do with getting stuck and maybe multiple tries at spinning the tyre???


I hope more people can get some evidence and hopefully remember what they did prior to cause the TRAC to kill all power.


------------------
Winter 2010/2011 Update

Got another dump of snow in early January (20-30cm) and after 10 days, our snowfall total was close to 50cm and that's on top of what has fallen since Nov 2010.

• TRAC worked seamlessly. Pretty sure I wouldn't be able to do the same in our 2005.
• TRAC never killed all power again. Still unsure how that happened last year
• Got stuck once but that was before Christmas in an unplowed area. Again, ground clearance on the Prius isn't great
• Lots of ice this year and it seems ABS increases stopping distance. Doing threshold braking seems to stop the car faster. Unscientific and totally a seat-of-the-pants judgement. Would be interested to hear other people's experience.
• Mudguards definitely collect a lot of snow

[Airbalancer]

Your get a lot of snow out there already
They are calling for snow this week up to 20 cm on Wednesday , really have had no snow yet
Still have the stock tires on, planning on wear out the stock wheels, the put snows on the 15" and get new 17's for the summer

If it bad I will just use the 4x4 pick up and the BMW runs on winter tires
I guess I should get some gas for the snow blower

[Benggolf]

Thanks for the info! No snow in Vancouver yet, but it is coming.
If the snow gets deep, I'll be staying home or taking the bus.

Can't trust the crazy drivers we have around Richmond.

[marcinpisz]

Originally Posted by Tideland Prius

So the city got dumped with 15-20cm of snow. Most of it is plowed but as typical residential streets and private roads are not plowed. This gave me a chance to try out the Prius in deep snow (not that I actually looked for a street to play in since I had to visit a friend anyway).

Tyre: Nokian Hakkapeliita R winter tyres.


Given that it's late and I'm tired from pushing my friend's cars, here's a summary

• TRAC worked as advertised in my video
• 15cm is definitely the limit of the Prius (and I'm sure most passenger cars. Even SUVs/pickups had some issues but definitely not related to clearance)
• Getting stuck sucks. Winter tyres won't help if the Prius is high grounded
• I managed to get the TRAC to kill all power like the 04-05 Prius (more on that below)
• Once stuck, it seems that normal mode is better than ECO mode. ECO mode doesn't want to give power while normal will just flood the tyres with torque and let the wheels spin
• Once spinning, it's easy to modulate the rate of wheel spin. You can have it rotate as if you're crawling or let the snow fly!! Not that you're getting anywhere but I thought that was an interesting observation when i was looking out the window as the bystanders helped push
• On the contrary, my other friend with a RAV4 AWD and Nokian WRG2 got around fine yesterday before the snow plows cleared the main streets as well as the residential streets.
• Will check for damage later (if any). There shouldn't be any since the snow is still soft
• Dunno if it's because it's loose "dry" snow vs. wet snow but the snow didn't pile up in the wheel well like I thought it'd would. Maybe it's b/c of the lack of mudguards??
  

Issues related to the cold:

• Damn tonneau cover won't fully retract. I can't even feed it in (was possible at 0°C but not possible at -10°C)

TRAC:

Yes I managed to get it to kill all power. The bystanders asked if I was in reverse and I said yes. The pedal was all the way to the ground. The only way to make it stop doing that was the same method I used on the 05 - shift to D and back to R again.


It happened twice. I don't remember what I did. Maybe I floored it too quickly??? It never happened if I just gunned it on a slippery surface (see TRAC video) so it has to be something to do with getting stuck and maybe multiple tries at spinning the tyre???


I hope more people can get some evidence and hopefully remember what they did prior to cause the TRAC to kill all power.

I finally found your video on YouTube. It's not very long but it gets to the point, which is nice. From what I see this car is most likely going to behave similarly to having no traction control in very deep snow. I have to say it's a relief, out of all the features that I don't particularly like about the Toyota Prius this is the only one that could be a killer one for me. I'm a shift worker and rely on the vehicle to get me there in deep snow, fortunately I also have a 4x4 truck. The reality is sometimes after a 12 hour shift the weather changes and have to go back using my car. I don't live in a particularly snowy part of the world, but a very cold part of the world with long winters. I know with studded winter tires, front wheel drive car is good enough for me. The only thing I was worried about was whether the inability of the traction control system to turn off could hinder me in the winter.

It's rarely we get more than 15 cm of snow, we just had some a couple of days ago and it definitely pushed front-wheel-drive cars to the limit. Having a 4x4 vehicle, means I have something with large ground clearance to get me through. The problem is, this 4x4 truck is still not a nice thing to drive in such bad weather. It may have a 4x4 system to keep me going, it doesn't have any better braking or handling in the front-wheel-drive car. I also do not have winter tires for this truck.

It's interesting that the Toyota Prius in eco-mode seems to behave similarly in terms of traction control to the 2004 and 2005 Toyota Prius. Once you get out of eco-mode it's reassuring to know that you can make the tires spin in all conditions. I think one of the biggest flaws of traction control is the system given up. I hate to say it but it's actually a safety concern. It's not always the safest thing to give up spinning their tires when you're trying to cross a divided highway and turn left. Even though you might get still stuck, the system should never ever give up. I don't care if the system gives up in economy mode. As long as there's a switch to override it, and make the tires spin with traction control.

Can you explain more about the time you killed the power. Are you saying this only happens in reverse, which is not a big deal as getting stuck while trying to go in reverse is not important. Are you saying this only happens in reverse, or are you saying that it happens in both directions but you just happen to be in reverse when it happened?

Did this happen from standing still or all power was cut when you were already in motion?
Are those tires studded by my chance?

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by Airbalancer

Your get a lot of snow out there already
They are calling for snow this week up to 20 cm on Wednesday , really have had no snow yet
Still have the stock tires on, planning on wear out the stock wheels, the put snows on the 15" and get new 17's for the summer

If it bad I will just use the 4x4 pick up and the BMW runs on winter tires
I guess I should get some gas for the snow blower

This snowfall isn't typical. Some people are saying they have gotten this much in one go since the 80s.

It's gonna be a mess for you guys this week (Although you might luck out and have it stay as mostly rain before switching to snow). The low that's been sitting over Oregon is gonna cross the Rockies some time tomorrow and "become" a Colorado low. Keep us updated!

Originally Posted by Benggolf

Thanks for the info! No snow in Vancouver yet, but it is coming.
If the snow gets deep, I'll be staying home or taking the bus.

Can't trust the crazy drivers we have around Richmond.

I hear ya.

Originally Posted by marcinpisz

I finally found your video on YouTube. It's not very long but it gets to the point, which is nice. From what I see this car is most likely going to behave similarly to having no traction control in very deep snow. I have to say it's a relief, out of all the features that I don't particularly like about the Toyota Prius this is the only one that could be a killer one for me. I'm a shift worker and rely on the vehicle to get me there in deep snow, fortunately I also have a 4x4 truck. The reality is sometimes after a 12 hour shift the weather changes and have to go back using my car. I don't live in a particularly snowy part of the world, but a very cold part of the world with long winters. I know with studded winter tires, front wheel drive car is good enough for me. The only thing I was worried about was whether the inability of the traction control system to turn off could hinder me in the winter.

It's rarely we get more than 15 cm of snow, we just had some a couple of days ago and it definitely pushed front-wheel-drive cars to the limit. Having a 4x4 vehicle, means I have something with large ground clearance to get me through. The problem is, this 4x4 truck is still not a nice thing to drive in such bad weather. It may have a 4x4 system to keep me going, it doesn't have any better braking or handling in the front-wheel-drive car. I also do not have winter tires for this truck.

It's interesting that the Toyota Prius in eco-mode seems to behave similarly in terms of traction control to the 2004 and 2005 Toyota Prius. Once you get out of eco-mode it's reassuring to know that you can make the tires spin in all conditions. I think one of the biggest flaws of traction control is the system given up. I hate to say it but it's actually a safety concern. It's not always the safest thing to give up spinning their tires when you're trying to cross a divided highway and turn left. Even though you might get still stuck, the system should never ever give up. I don't care if the system gives up in economy mode. As long as there's a switch to override it, and make the tires spin with traction control.

Can you explain more about the time you killed the power. Are you saying this only happens in reverse, which is not a big deal as getting stuck while trying to go in reverse is not important. Are you saying this only happens in reverse, or are you saying that it happens in both directions but you just happen to be in reverse when it happened?

Did this happen from standing still or all power was cut when you were already in motion?
Are those tires studded by my chance?

I can't. I have no idea how I killed the power so I'm hoping other people can repeat it and come back with reports on how it happens so that we can avoid it.

They're studless tyres.

[CivicQc]

Originally Posted by Tideland Prius

Issues related to the cold:

• Damn tonneau cover won't fully retract. I can't even feed it in (was possible at 0°C but not possible at -10°C)

Tideland Prius,

thanks for that - quite interesting. From what I understand about your experience related with killing all power, it only happened twice on quite many trials. Is that correct?

I see they forecast very cold weather in your area in the next few days. Please tell us how it behaves at -30 C : engine start, front/back defrost, amount of heat from heater, behavior of handle detector for keyless entry, etc.

It seems you are getting all the bad weather first this year...

[Boo]

That's a little disappointing to hear that you killed/lost all power twice.

One thing I've wondered about since reading about it in an European PriusChatter's post last year, is whether you are less likely to kill/lose all power from TRAC if you put the car in EV Mode. That's what he said he does when climbing gravely inclines, etc., and that it seems to work.

[Tideland Prius]

Originally Posted by Boo

That's a little disappointing to hear that you killed/lost all power twice.

One thing I've wondered about since reading about it in an European PriusChatter's post last year, is whether you are less likely to kill/lose all power from TRAC if you put the car in EV Mode. That's what he said he does when climbing gravely inclines, etc., and that it seems to work.

Well keep in mind if I didn't have anyone pushing the car, I wouldn't gun it. That's not the proper technique. You apply light throttle until the wheels slip and try moving from there. If you can't, rock the Prius just in D (i.e. pulse the accelerator). If that fails, then I use the standard rocking technique (D then R then D etc etc).

EV Drive mode works that way and so does ECO mode. Both modes help reduce the power to the wheels, allowing easier modulation of power.

Originally Posted by CivicQc

Tideland Prius,

thanks for that - quite interesting. From what I understand about your experience related with killing all power, it only happened twice on quite many trials. Is that correct?

I see they forecast very cold weather in your area in the next few days. Please tell us how it behaves at -30 C : engine start, front/back defrost, amount of heat from heater, behavior of handle detector for keyless entry, etc.

It seems you are getting all the bad weather first this year...

Yeah and this is the first time it happened. If you gun it and it's just a slippery surface (ice or compact snow), then the TRAC works just like I showed in the video. I don't intend to stuff the Prius into a snowbank to try and find out what killed the TRAC


Sure but the car's plugged in right now so it won't be a cold start. I did a cold start at -10°C and that worked fine. ECO mode will take a while to heat up the cabin so if you want heat, stay in normal mode. If you want to save fuel, use ECO mode (engine shuts down earlier).


I can tell you about the SKS. I do wish I had the buttons but at the same time, I love the new sleek integrated look of the new touch-sensitive versions.

The thing is, it makes it more difficult to lock with gloves on. With normal fitted driving gloves, I need to use both the top and bottom sensor. With full winter gloves, I have to use both sensors AND stand really close to the car (not sure if it's the glove issue or the FOB issue cause it's just in my jean pocket which obviously isn't insulated well against -10°C and colder temps.

In the summer, just using one sensor will lock the car.

[Terrell]

I live in Wisconsin, and so far have been impressed with how well the Prius goes through the snow. When it's deep or slippery, the yellow slippage light flashes, I ease up on the gas, and it goes.

When the snow is deeper than 5-7 inches (12-17 cm), I take the van. The clearance of the Prius is only about 5.5 inches, if that.

Flooring it on any car in snow is just plain crazy - all you do is make ice around the wheels and dig a deeper hole. Rocking back and forth is best, and turn the wheel to get a different grip.

[ALS]

I've thrilled with the performance of my Prius in the snow.
The Michelin ICE-X's help a lot to enhance that performance.

I had to go and pick up one of my employees at her home since the useless idiots that run our city and drivers that belong to the local Union haven't got around to plowing her street yet. Yes guys it snowed on Friday Night and (three of my employees who haven't been bright enough to move out of the city) have yet to see a plow come down their street in five days.

But back to the main point due to the lack of plowing on Monday I had to run over to her house and pick her up two-three blocks from her house. The route I took, I didn't realize that there was a steep hill I had to go down to get to a main road. It was plowed but the road was covered with packed snow. I sat at the top and said I'm nuts for even trying this. I creeped the car down that hill with zero slippage. There wasn't a car I've ever owned in the past that would have done so well in snow conditions like we have had since Friday night.