Got the "Feel" of the HV/ICE Line!

[a priori]

I have "complained" since day one with my 2010 that the car is too quiet and the HSD too smooth for me to get a "feel" for the system. Perhaps my memory is a bit off, but it seems to me that I didn't have to struggle very hard to get the feel for the Gen2 HSD. What I mean is, I could feel the ICE turning on or off, and I could feel when these things were going to happen. I think the feedback was more aural and, for lack of a better word, "vibrational."

With the 2010, though, the car was much quieter, and I felt more disconnected from the HSD. I just couldn't tell when the ICE was on -- but for the instruments. Part of it, of course, was that the HSD didn't start turning the ICE over once I surpassed 41mph -- I had to get above 45!

Ever since DaveinOlyWa started his great Hybrid System Indicator and Stealth thread, I've been trying to get a better lock on where I could predict or even feel things such as ICE turnover or ICE off. We have been discussing not just the meaning, but also the interpretation of the Hybrid System Indicator (HSI) on the Multi-Information Display. Dave is attempting to measure whether a concentrated effort on keeping the indicator near the center line on the HSI would increase his fuel economy.

I started taking greater note of that center line and using it to measure ICE turn over. As predicted, at lower speeds (45 and below) and without wild acceleration, the ICE remains off (in a "warm" ICE condition) until the center line is crossed.

Here is where I finally found some FEEL in the 2010!

Clearly, the Toyota engineers wanted to meet customer expectations. They have done so in one way, and that is to make it very easy to drop your way into "Stealth" mode. Meaning: Once you have accelerated to a certain speed, even above 25mph, you can run on the battery only simply by releasing pressure on the accelerator and feathering back up, only slightly. You hardly need to try to accomplish this.

Beyond that, the Toyota folks appear to have put a "feel" point in there. Maybe it is just me, but I can "feel" the barrier that exists at the center line in the HSI. If you have a slow accleration going while in Stealth (or in EV below 25), you'll actually feel the resistance increase as you "hit" the center line on the HSI. In order to engage the ICE, you need to increase the pressure on the accelerator. I've tried this many times over, now, and it is a consistent resistance right at that point.

Has anyone else felt this? Sure, it could be just me, but I'm fairly certain of what I "felt" and would like to hear from others about this "finding."

[HTMLSpinnr]

Any time your MPG is pegged at 100mpg, you're pretty sure to be in Stealth. I can tell when my ICE is loping along at low RPM - it's quiet, but not silent.

[a priori]

Originally Posted by HTMLSpinnr

Any time your MPG is pegged at 100mpg, you're pretty sure to be in Stealth. I can tell when my ICE is loping along at low RPM - it's quiet, but not silent.

Pretty certain, but not assured. I've seen the MPG indicator (even this morning) dropping down one or two blips and going back up, all without any other indication of a change, and all at a fairly constant speed.

In any event, I was more interested in finding out whether you'd "felt" the resistance at the HSI center line. Do you feel that at all? Does my question make any sense to you?

[B-Dog]

Originally Posted by a priori

Pretty certain, but not assured. I've seen the MPG indicator (even this morning) dropping down one or two blips and going back up, all without any other indication of a change, and all at a fairly constant speed.

In any event, I was more interested in finding out whether you'd "felt" the resistance at the HSI center line. Do you feel that at all? Does my question make any sense to you?

I also have noticed the Resistance at the HSI center line. It's very subtle but there if I'm using very little pressure on the gas pedal.

[ken1784]

Hope everybody loves ICE running monitor LED.

Ken@Japan

[a priori]

Originally Posted by ken1784

Hope everybody loves ICE running monitor LED.

Ken@Japan

I like it, Ken!

I'm still looking for a place to put it, as well as an appropriate color selection!

[MarvHein]

Originally Posted by B-Dog

I also have noticed the Resistance at the HSI center line. It's very subtle but there if I'm using very little pressure on the gas pedal.

Me too.

[a64pilot]

I don't think there is feedback in the accelerator pedal. Think about it a "stick shaker" for the accelerator pedal. now that would be a cool mod

[a priori]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don't think there is feedback in the accelerator pedal. Think about it a "stick shaker" for the accelerator pedal. now that would be a cool mod

Great concept, driver!

It pretty much is a stall warning, I suppose.

[a64pilot]

I've forgotten what it's called, but you can actually train yourself through repeated practice to "feel" something that has no "feel". For example a good target rifle's trigger has no creep, that is it does not move until it releases all at once. The force required to "break" the trigger is very repeatable though. If you shoot it enough, you know the instant just before the trigger breaks, you can swear you can "feel" it, but in reality you have trained yourself to the exact amount of pressure your finger exerts to break the trigger.
I assume you have trained yourself to the point that you can ride the edge of the center line of the HSI without going over it just by feel, but I don't think there is any feed back through the pedal that is helping you do that.
I'm sure your actually doing it, just think the car isn't helping you is all.
Just like i can swear that a short time after I start a glide something releases, feels like an automatic tranny does when it shifts into neutral, but it's probably all in my head.